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Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity
  • Which do you value more?

    Genre Loyalty - True metal or nothing
    1
    6%
    Keep It Real - Wander if you must but keep it metal!
    2
    12%
    Musical Diversity - Artists and their fans should be open to anything, so long as it's quality music that moves people
    12
    71%
    To Each Their Own - Go be a studio musician for Disney or Muzak if it pays the bills
    2
    12%
     
    Total votes: 17
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    ShoreSlayer
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    Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by ShoreSlayer » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:19 am

    The whole poser thing raised about Machine Head in the Headliner thread got me thinking.

    When it's well intentioned and wisely directed, I value loyalty and integrity as much as the next person. And I think I cringe as much as the next when I hear of someone selling out their fans and their musical history to pursue a creative path that seems more motivated by profit than true inspiration and musical quality (ie: Metallica when they met and embraced the true Satan himself, Bob Rock or when Vivian Campbell left Dio to hook up with the ever-increasing saccharine flavoured version of Def Leppard).

    I'm not here to defend Machine Head because I'm not a huge fan of theirs and it's not really the point of my post. I enjoyed their set opening for Megadeth and Slayer last year and have a couple of their albums but I'm the last person who should be weighing in on whether or not their music deserves the respect of others. I really do believe I'm more open-minded than the average metal fan when it comes to the music I choose to listen to vs. what I'll discard as shit. Not sure if it comes from being a musician myself or just not being very picky or what, but I just like a LOT of different stuff. As I've said in other threads, as well as hundreds, maybe thousands of metal bands in various sub-genres, I'm also a fan of numerous artists outside of metal . For me, music has a lot to do with moods and I just don't spend all my waking hours in search of headbanging adrenaline and mind-bending, speed-of-light solos. If that disqualifies me as a true metal fan in the eyes of some, fair enough.

    But what constitutes a sell-out or a poser? I mean, Dimebag and Co. did okay for themselves despite Pantera's questionable musical past before Anselmo signed up. Alex Skolnick has ripped it up with Testament and Savatage for decades now but his work with TSO is quite a leap, backwards most would suggest, from what he created with those bands. Judas Priest's Turbo is an album that comes to mind as one that had fans shrugging and rolling their eyes. Even the mighty Sabbath, held by many to be the grand-daddies of all metal, released a fair bit of material that was a far cry from the content of their classic debut. Sure, some of it expanded on what they'd begun and took metal in new directions, but some was pretty experimental or unusual (Planet Caravan from Paranoid) and, at times, influenced by commercial trends (It's Alright from Technical Ecstasy). The list goes on.

    Lots of the times the responsibility rests with record company execs or bad management decisions but, often it also has to do with the musicians themselves looking to branch out and expand their personal horizons and grow as musicians. Some just tire of playing the same kind of stuff night in, night out. Is it the stance of the metal purist that any artist, once they've established themselves as a member of the metal family tree, who goes on to record or perform something that is less metal or even non-metal, whether it be to earn a bigger pay cheque or to explore different aspects of their musical talent, is automatically a sell-out? Hypothetically, some kid grows up surrounded by family and friends who are into country or rap. He or she learns to sing or play and starts to build a career and a following in one of those genres and then discovers metal and finds it to be the most satisfying and exciting form of music they've ever heard or played. They go on to form a metal band but their past is discovered soon afterward by their fans. Are they a poser or a convert? You learn that one of your favourite guitarists listens to Avril Lavigne when he's relaxing on the tour bus... Do you lose respect for them?

    Don't get me wrong, I do have an idea or two of my own about some of this but I always enjoy hearing what others think about stuff like this.

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  • Metalwrath

    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by Metalwrath » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:43 pm

    Well you have differnt ypes of this category to be honest.
    One main one is old established bands that abuse their already established fan bases,
    Example of this would be Metallica,Slayer and Anthrax,Thye are 3 of the main culprits.In the 80's they all released a few great albums but as the years went one they ran out of creativity but they decided now that this was their job for the rest of their life so instead of being enthusiastic about it they churned out 2 decades of shit albums knowing that the fans would buy them anyway and also at the same time deliberatly only playing mostly old stuff on the tours because they know at the end of the day if they dared play lots of newwer stuff they wouldn't get any gigs anymore.
    Then you have bands that use the tag of metal to make money and make their lyrics,vocal style etc aimed towards a target audience.Bands that fit into this category would be Bullet For my Valentine,Avenged Sevenfold,Trivium,Lamb of God,Killswitch engage etc.The list goes on and on.These are people who don't really give a fuck about metal or know anything about the metal scene but saw a young audience of teenagagers that could be exploited.
    While some may blame their record companies when it comes down to it there is always a choice.
    Metal is about Freedom.
    A perfect example of people who would not give in to this trend is Darrel Wane from Neevermore.Nevermore was not his first band but he left the original band he was in because at the time grunge was getting really big and his managment wanted his band to go grunge.He made the right choice and left the band and created Nevermore.Not so many metalheads in bands have had the balls to make this decision.It's things like this that seperate the trues from the falses.

    Another example of untrue metal bands was in the mid 90's when nu metal started with the likes of Korn and Deftones.they are 2 of the main culptirs who started this trend of creating music targeted at angry repressed teenagers.Later along the line Slipknot used the same marketing scheme.Over the years you will see the trend of these bands and the people who like the bands.It's not a coincedence and has fuck all to do what metal is really about.
    I could debate this topic for pages and pages but i'm a bit drunk at the moment.
    Hopefully the statements i have made so far will clear up some of your questions.
    Being true has nothing to do with being a purist or an elitist.Metal is from the heart
  • Jöhn&Melönius
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    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by Jöhn&Melönius » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:26 pm

    Metal is from the heart but I wouldn't hold success against anyone that chooses to try and make some bucks. Getting paid is a big motivator when your looking at going back to some crap minimum wage job. As far as exploiting the angry youth goes, producers have played on that angle since the beginning. Elvis, the Who, selling rebellion to the youth on their parents tab is a perpetual industry.
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    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by ShoreSlayer » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:32 pm

    Thanks MW. That makes a lot of sense. Please do add more once you're sober if ya wanna too haha.

    The story about Warrel Dane is very inspiring. I had no knowledge of his history in that regard but that definitely does say a lot about his commitment to metal.

    I definitely enjoyed some Deftones and Korn tunes over the years. I guess they sucked in that part of me that is still a hostile little adolescent fuck haha... I also liked that they sort of sounded like something I'd never heard before. Part of me does tire of the same old rock and metal formulas some days. Never could wrap my head around the music of any of those others listed like lamb, bullet, trivium though. It was hearing bands like that that really sort of led me to believe that the newer metal was going to shit and I must be getting too old for it lol.

    Newer Slayer hasn't done much for me as I'm a bit of a stickler for Seasons in the Abyss and earlier but have enjoyed most Anthrax releases. Can really see what you mean though about so many of these older bands touring on the strength of their classic material. Honestly, I'd already thought that, if Slayer were brought on this cruise as one of the headliners, I hope it's on agreement that they perform something like Show No Mercy or Seasons in it's entirety.
    So far at least, 2011, 2012 & 2015 were enough for me
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  • Metalwrath

    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by Metalwrath » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:59 am

    I can't think of any band that has stayed truer to their music thanprobably Saxon.
    They've been going longer than the likes of Metallica and Slater etc but they never really changed the music they play.They found a style for them that worked,
    They always give great energy when they are onstage and on top of that they tour way more than most bands half their age do.
    They may not be as huge as other bands cause of this reason but to me i think they got it right.
    I mean they don't even charge large amounts of money for their gigs either which is also another reason why they get so many gigs.

    Another thing that really annoys me that bands have been doing over the last few years is only touring on their last couple of albums.Not having variety in the setlist and not playing any of their older stuff.
    Some may wonder what the reason for this is.
    Some say that maybe the bands have just gotten fed up with playing the old material but the other well known reason is that they have more fans now then ever due to the new material so they tend to stick to playing that as the newer fans are the ones that will be at the gigs in a higer majority and quite frankly half of them probably haven't heard the older albums.
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    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by KevinP » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:06 am

    ShoreSlayer wrote:For me, music has a lot to do with moods and I just don't spend all my waking hours in search of headbanging adrenaline and mind-bending, speed-of-light solos. If that disqualifies me as a true metal fan in the eyes of some, fair enough.


    Couldn't agree with you more. :D I think it would be boring to like only 1 type of anything in life. I love pizza but I'm not consuming 3X per day 7 days per week. Variety is the spice of life.

    I try not to overthink these type of things. You like what you like because you like it, not because it's cool, true or real. There is no right or wrong, just a matter of opinion :mrgreen:
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    Captain Metal
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    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by Captain Metal » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:28 pm

    I need to chime in on the Warrel Dane story, as it was a bit inaccurate. It's true that Sanctuary was getting pressure from Sony in the early 90's when Grunge exploded, and it certainly didn't help that they were also from Seattle (the epicenter of the grunge disease). However, Warrel didn't quit the band, so much as the band disintegrated because of this. At that point Warrel, Jim Sheppard (Bass) and Jeff Loomis (touring guitarist) decided to carry on in the same direction Sanctuary was already moving in and called this new incarnation Nevermore. So yeah, Warrel, Jim and Jeff refused cave into label pressure and went their own way to create a band that many of us enjoy to this day.

    I do believe that one of the other former Sanctuary members went and joined some grunge band that never went anywhere, so I wonder who made the right choice there, eh?
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  • Metalwrath

    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by Metalwrath » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:37 am

    Ah cheers for the clearing the story up.
    Couldn't remember it entirley.
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    sideways
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    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by sideways » Thu May 06, 2010 5:21 pm

    Quite simply put, good music, is good music. I dabble in a few other Genre's, but Metal will always be the most enjoyable for me. Doesn't make me any less of a metal head, I just have an appreciation for good musicians!
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    Disaster Area
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    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by Disaster Area » Thu May 06, 2010 6:32 pm

    sideways wrote:Quite simply put, good music, is good music. I dabble in a few other Genre's, but Metal will always be the most enjoyable for me. Doesn't make me any less of a metal head, I just have an appreciation for good musicians!



    Here Here! Well said, agree 100% (except for country, RAP and Hip Hop)


    oh and Disco...
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    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by viathyn » Fri May 07, 2010 9:37 am

    I agree with that as well!

    There is underground talent in any musical subgenre. If someone has put a good amount of effort into creating something worth listening to, it's good in my books!
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    vainglory
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    Re: Genre Loyalty vs. Musical Diversity

    by vainglory » Fri May 07, 2010 10:26 am

    Disaster Area wrote:
    sideways wrote:Quite simply put, good music, is good music. I dabble in a few other Genre's, but Metal will always be the most enjoyable for me. Doesn't make me any less of a metal head, I just have an appreciation for good musicians!



    Here Here! Well said, agree 100% (except for country, RAP and Hip Hop)


    oh and Disco...
    :beerwink:


    I dunno I'm kind of a music whore...
    METAL is always number one (duh)
    but set my MP3 player to "random all" and you'll get quite the mix.

    The most offbeat being old Nashville Rockabilly (and I think that counts as country) and Bossa Nova.
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