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Love Or Hate
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    Love Or Hate

    by Stained Class » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:03 pm

    I've noticed something funny and I thought I'd bring it up for discussion.
    There are certain bands on this forum that lots of people put in their top 5 bands or say that they are the reason they are going on this cruise and the rest of the people say they can't stand that band and they want to dump them overboard, make them cry, etc.
    You've probably figured out what band I'm talking about by now. SONATA ARCTICA.

    Why is it that everyone either loves this band or hates their guts?
    No flaming please.
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Disaster Area » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:07 pm

    Stained Class wrote:I've noticed something funny and I thought I'd bring it up for discussion.
    There are certain bands on this forum that lots of people put in their top 5 bands or say that they are the reason they are going on this cruise and the rest of the people say they can't stand that band and they want to dump them overboard, make them cry, etc.
    You've probably figured out what band I'm talking about by now. SONATA ARCTICA.

    Why is it that everyone either loves this band or hates their guts?
    No flaming please.


    No flaming..? an impossibility for some on here, so stand by with you fire-retardant suit man. Here we go... :roll:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by mooyagi » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:30 pm

    I predict that this won't end well. I'm listening to Reckoning Night right now :D
    I can't really pinpoint exactly what it is about them that makes me love Sonata. Their music, to me is really catchy and not hard to get into. I really enjoy Tony's vocals, and I've really liked the guitar and keyboard work that they do. Every time I've seen them, they have put on a great show and work to get the crowd into the show as well. They have also always taken the time to meet their fans after the show and they are really cool guys to talk to.

    I can see why some people hate them. They aren't particularly heavy, sometimes they come out with a more "poppy" power (and not so power) metal sound, and the last two albums are the worst in their catalog, though I appreciate them trying to do something a little different (I'm not saying they are bad albums, they just don't stand up to their earlier work). As it goes with any band that has some measure of popularity, they have their groups of lovers and haters.

    They don't really add anything new to the table, but I believe they have always been solid and they are one of my favorites. I'm very excited to see them on this cruise.
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Ecliptica » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:33 pm

    mooyagi wrote:I predict that this won't end well. I'm listening to Reckoning Night right now :D
    I can't really pinpoint exactly what it is about them that makes me love Sonata. Their music, to me is really catchy and not hard to get into. I really enjoy Tony's vocals, and I've really liked the guitar and keyboard work that they do. Every time I've seen them, they have put on a great show and work to get the crowd into the show as well. They have also always taken the time to meet their fans after the show and they are really cool guys to talk to.

    I can see why some people hate them. They aren't particularly heavy, sometimes they come out with a more "poppy" power (and not so power) metal sound, and the last two albums are the worst in their catalog, though I appreciate them trying to do something a little different (I'm not saying they are bad albums, they just don't stand up to their earlier work). As it goes with any band that has some measure of popularity, they have their groups of lovers and haters.

    They don't really add anything new to the table, but I believe they have always been solid and they are one of my favorites. I'm very excited to see them on this cruise.



    Sonata Arctica has been my favorite band for almost 10 years now, since I first heard 'Kingdom for a Heart' back in 2000 (at the time, I was listening to more Dark Tranquillity, Arch Enemy, Amorphis, etc. Now, it's pretty much power metal for me). I, for one, disagree with many of their fans and think that their last two albums are FAR AND AWAY their best albums. The move towards the progressive sound has been fantastic for them. I've seen them many times throughout the years as their sound has evolved and at the shows it seems that there are an overwhelming majority of fans that love the old speedy power metal stuff ('Black Sheep', 'Kingdom for a Heart', 'Eighth Commandment') and very few that are really embracing their new sound.

    Something about the music is just relatable, I suppose. The emotion that Tony puts behind his vocals and the amount of human emotion that go into the lyrics aren't totally unique to this genre of music, but watching them play live, you can feel that connection to the music. You can feel the emotion.

    And, yes, they put on a great show, get the crowd involved, and are always willing to enjoy the time with their fans after the show. I'm surprised that the band members actually remember me every time I go to a show and talk to them afterwards -- they're perfect for the cruise because they get to know their fans.


    This cruise will be my 10th time seeing them live. I admit I'm getting totally sick of the setlist and really, really hope they do something different (honestly -- and I assume I'm the ONLY person that thinks this -- but I'd love to just see an acoustic set by them). Still, I've yet to be disappointed.
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Goddess of Metal » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:43 pm

    I love them too! The cruise will be my 5th time seeing them. :D
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by mooyagi » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:56 pm

    Ecliptica,
    I do still enjoy the new albums and at some level it is great to see a band reach out and try something new. I do think a lot of people (some of my friends included) immediately dumped them because they didn't have the happy go lucky power metal sound that they were so familiar with. Even though I think they are their weakest albums, albeit still good ones, for me it's not because they tried something new. I will admit, it took me a while to appreciate most of Unia, and some of the songs on there still confuse me, but it did grow on me a little bit. I do still get excited whenever I come across an older style song like Flag in the Ground.

    I'm surprised with your comment about their setlist. Every time, at least recently, that I've had a chance to see them (I don't even remember how many times it's been by now) they have added something new to the mix. I think we will always hear songs like Don't Say a Word, The Cage and 8th Commandment due to their popularity, but I'm dying for them to play White Pearl, Black Oceans and Juliet (my favorite off of the last album). This actually brings up another question, are the bands going to play the same setlists for each performance or are they going to mix it up? Either way, I will probably be joining you front and center for them. I do like your idea of an acoustic set. It'd be interesting to see them try to pull it off but I feel that some songs actually may sound better acoustically.

    :cheers:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Ecliptica » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:42 am

    Yay! There are actually quite a few SA fans coming that don't post here but are pretty active on the SA website. My cabin mate/best friend is another huge, huge Sonata Arctica fan and we booked our tickets the minute they went on sale simply because of them. In essence, this trip has been planned for us since December of 2009. Sad, I know.

    I'm just being idealistic about the set list being totally different (and to hear some of the stuff they never play live -- 'Zeroes', 'The Ruins of My Life' --which was played ONCE in 2004 -- 'Ain't Your Fairytale' [also only played once], 'Deathaura'. . .that type of stuff).
    I honestly wouldn't mind if I never heard 'The Cage' or 'Don't Say A Word' again. I didn't catch them on the tour this fall (because I wanted to save my 10th show for the cruise) but I'm pretty sure that they were playing 'Juliet' in most of the stops. I did see them play 'White Pearl, Black Oceans' for the first time in Houston in 2007 (in full) and it was truly the single best performance I've ever seen live (any band, any song). I've seen them play it in subsequent shows and it's total hit or miss though :-/. Hopefully the cruise is a bit of a rejuvenation for them, the last time I saw them -- the tour before this last one -- they just looked tired and, for lack of a better term, 'out of it'.

    :cheers: :cheers:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Malaka » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:06 am

    I HATE LOVE... I LOVE HATE!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:



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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Disaster Area » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:54 am

    SlaytanicE21 wrote:I HATE LOVE... I LOVE HATE!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:



    :P


    Nice, I want a bumper sticker with that quote!
    :cheers:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by mooyagi » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:07 am

    Ecliptica wrote:Yay! There are actually quite a few SA fans coming that don't post here but are pretty active on the SA website. My cabin mate/best friend is another huge, huge Sonata Arctica fan and we booked our tickets the minute they went on sale simply because of them. In essence, this trip has been planned for us since December of 2009. Sad, I know.

    I'm just being idealistic about the set list being totally different (and to hear some of the stuff they never play live -- 'Zeroes', 'The Ruins of My Life' --which was played ONCE in 2004 -- 'Ain't Your Fairytale' [also only played once], 'Deathaura'. . .that type of stuff).
    I honestly wouldn't mind if I never heard 'The Cage' or 'Don't Say A Word' again. I didn't catch them on the tour this fall (because I wanted to save my 10th show for the cruise) but I'm pretty sure that they were playing 'Juliet' in most of the stops. I did see them play 'White Pearl, Black Oceans' for the first time in Houston in 2007 (in full) and it was truly the single best performance I've ever seen live (any band, any song). I've seen them play it in subsequent shows and it's total hit or miss though :-/. Hopefully the cruise is a bit of a rejuvenation for them, the last time I saw them -- the tour before this last one -- they just looked tired and, for lack of a better term, 'out of it'.

    :cheers: :cheers:


    I wonder, with you being from Malibu, was that a show where they opened for Dragonforce at the West Hollywood House of Blues? For that show, not only did they have a really short setlist (6 songs!!!) but a few band members were actually sick during that part of the tour, which would naturally affect their performance, though I remember going to a show in New Hampshire after they had canceled the previous night due to Tony being sick and they were great despite the fact that Tony was clearly not feeling well. He had to even sit down and walk off the stage a couple of times to collect himself. Having never done a world tour myself, I can't even imagine the type of strain that causes with constant travel, late nights and sleeping on a bus while trying to give it your all every single show. I just hope none of the bands on board get seasick! I could also do without seeing 'The Cage,' 'Don't Say a Word,' etc. the next few times through to open up a spot for some different material. I've had the chance to see them play 'Wolf and Raven' and 'San Sebastian,' which they hadn't played live in a long time, so that was a nice little treat. Some new material can be hit or miss though, they've played 'The Worlds Forgotten, the Words Forbidden' and that didn't really go over too well with the crowd. I guess we just have to wait and see.

    :cheers:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by mooyagi » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:13 am

    Now that you mention it, I think they did play Juliet at that WeHo show.
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Disaster Area » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:21 am

    Ecliptica, I need to take Dramamine just to read you posts now due to that freakin new avatar of yours. Almost as crazy as the Gary Busey one that other guy had a couple months ago...
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by KevinP » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:28 am

    I don't like them, but wouldn't say I "hate" them, as I had only minimal exposure & never thought about them before this cruise.

    I just think since SA is not really a "metal" band people feel they don't really belong on the cruise. There's nothing remotely heavy or aggressive about any of their songs (again I have not heard their entire catalog, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - which I doubt I am though :lol: )

    To me they stick out like a sore thumb with the rest of the lineup. I'm all for variety, but it would just be a huge understatement to say I don't care for their "style".

    I've tried to listen to more than 2 minutes of any 1 song of theirs, but it feels like someone removed my testicles and drained all the testosterone out of my body when I do.

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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by mooyagi » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:04 am

    Kevin, I think they wouldn't stick out quite as much if Stratovarius were still in the lineup as they are similar. Do you recall exactly what songs/albums you have been exposed to? They have taken a much different tone over the last couple, but I would hold that their earlier albums are decidedly power metal. Try listening to '8th Commandment,' 'Wolf and Raven' or 'The Cage,' to name a few earlier tracks. They do have a bit of a "safer" sound that can and does appeal to people who don't normally listen to heavy metal and they are quite keyboard heavy, which can turn some folks off, but I'd have to disagree that they are not a metal band. I've even heard the dreaded term "flower metal" to describe them and similar acts. It brings up the age old question, "What exactly is heavy metal? Where do we draw a line?" They are a pretty well known act and hopefully they can help to bring more people on board that are on the fence about coming on the cruise. It's nice to see someone who's not a fan contribute to the conversation. Thanks for your input.
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by KevinP » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:26 am

    mooyagi wrote:Kevin, I think they wouldn't stick out quite as much if Stratovarius were still in the lineup as they are similar. Do you recall exactly what songs/albums you have been exposed to? It's nice to see someone who's not a fan contribute to the conversation. Thanks for your input.
    :cheers:


    Mainly just the ones on Myspace. I hadn't heard any of their material in years until this cruise made me go back and listen again. I never liked Stratovarious either and I lump them into the same category together for my own easy classification.

    (now you made me pause the Hellhammer CD so I can go to their Myspace page :evil: )

    - just listening to the very beginning of Last Days of Grace & Flag in the Ground makes me almost uncomfortable. I normally can listen to almost anything, even if I don't like it, but the keyboards, vocals and guitar riffs sound like it's almost family friendly prog rock and/or they are trying waaaaay too hard to sound "cool" or "hip". 80's hair metal or nu metal is much easier for me to tolerate (for whatever reason).

    Not every band has to be brutal death metal either and I like the use of keyboards, just in a "NON happy go lucky mamby pamby way". I like music that has a "bite" or "edge" to it. SA doesn't have a heaviness about them either, it just sounds wimpy and whiney. (have I offended every SA fan yet? Not my intent, just trying to give you my raw feelings :D )

    While they serve no purpose for me on the cruise, they are well known and liked by people, so it's hard to complain about their inclusion. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by mooyagi » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:35 am

    Flag in the Ground is actually a remake of a song they wrote back when they were a pop/rock family friendly band and The Last Amazing Grays is basically a radio single. For me, heavy metal does not have to always have some kind of a bite or edge to it. I quite enjoy some of the happy go lucky sing songy stuff out there. Anyway, I hope you give them at least a chance on board, as regardless of the merits of their "metalness" they put on a great show. Cheers!
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by KevinP » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:45 am

    mooyagi wrote: Anyway, I hope you give them at least a chance on board, as regardless of the merits of their "metalness" they put on a great show. Cheers!


    I'd never rule anything out. Heck, if they were playing in one of the smaller lounges and there was a nice big comfortable chair available and I had nothing else going on, I might sit down :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Stained Class » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:48 pm

    Good points from both sides. They aren't that heavy but I wouldn't consider them "not metal". Doesn't really matter what they are I just really like melody in my music, that's why I listen to them. I guess it comes down to if you don't like it don't listen to it. I play on seeing almost every single band on the boat whether or not I like their recorded stuff just to see how they are live. Hopefully people won't go up to any of the bands and make them feel unwelcome, we're all just here to party anyways :party:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by mooyagi » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:04 pm

    I believe anybody going on a cruise to heckle bands they don't like should be thrown overboard.
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by DragonLordJones » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:37 pm

    just got through watching - for the sake of revenge dvd ....... wasn't bad S A puts on a pretty good show on it, worth a look on the cruise.

    but then again I really wanna see all 40 bands - that's the goal -------- hope they post the best times to see all the bands.
    (this could change due to schedule - drinking - and what-not) :cheers: :givebeer:
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    Re: Love Or Hate

    by Ecliptica » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:50 pm

    mooyagi wrote:I believe anybody going on a cruise to heckle bands they don't like should be thrown overboard.



    Totally agree. Don't ruin the fun for everyone else. I'm not going to go to your favorite band's show and be a downer, I expect the same courtesy from everyone else.

    The problem with SA is that the songs they've released as singles ('The Last Amazing Grays', 'Paid in Full') are certainly amongst their worst songs. They're whiny, they're wimpy. I understand. I think those two are probably two of my least favorite songs by them, definitely 'Paid in Full' is in my all-time bottom 3).

    But they do have heavier songs -- 'In Black and White', 'The Harvest', 'Abandoned, Pleased, Brainwashed, Exploited' (another that I've somehow never seen them play live), 'Deathaura', and 'The Vice' are decidedly "metal" -- there's no other way to classify those. Don't always listen to the radio singles, there's a reason WHY they're released for the radio. Nothing else on Unia sounds like 'Paid in Full', for example. Just as nothing on 'The Days of Grays' sounds like 'Flag in the Ground'.
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