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The Official 70000TONS OF METAL 2014 Megathread
  • meshuggah
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by meshuggah » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:42 am

    meshuggah wrote: When a new band is announced, wife's 1st question is "is this a band with a growler"? If I say yes, I get :cry: , although she's starting to understand that the "growler" is another musical instrument rather than a traditional "lead singer". More suggestions on how to explain this would be welcome :cheers:

    Well as long as they're happy.

    For growling, I always say it's just a different vocal style. It takes getting used to for most people, kinda like a heavy accent. At first it's just gibberish but then you start to understand the different articulations in the words. Also it sometimes makes it easier to get into once you understand how difficult it is to actually sing death metal for 2 hours straight. It's not just mindless screaming, a lot of preparation goes into it.[/quote]

    Yep...just like opera singers the same basics of Support, Breath and Placement are applied. If you growl completely in your throat with a raised larynx, you will last about 3 minutes. It's interesting how proper vocal technique spans the gamut across all types of vocal music!
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by dinki » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:40 am

    A another announcement tody? alestorm? Dragonforce?
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by klons » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:52 am

    dinki wrote:A another announcement tody? alestorm? Dragonforce?


    No Dragonforce, they were on last year. A double announcement of Alestorm/Gloryhammer would be interesting though!
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by alex_canada » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:34 pm

    I'll weigh in on the growling...

    For growling, I always say it's just a different vocal style. It takes getting used to for most people, kinda like a heavy accent. At first it's just gibberish but then you start to understand the different articulations in the words. Also it sometimes makes it easier to get into once you understand how difficult it is to actually sing death metal for 2 hours straight. It's not just mindless screaming, a lot of preparation goes into it.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Stained Class » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:39 pm

    alex_canada wrote:I'll weigh in on the growling...

    For growling, I always say it's just a different vocal style. It takes getting used to for most people, kinda like a heavy accent. At first it's just gibberish but then you start to understand the different articulations in the words. Also it sometimes makes it easier to get into once you understand how difficult it is to actually sing death metal for 2 hours straight. It's not just mindless screaming, a lot of preparation goes into it.

    I agree
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Laura » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:54 pm

    meshuggah wrote:When a new band is announced, wife's 1st question is "is this a band with a growler"? If I say yes, I get :cry: , although she's starting to understand that the "growler" is another musical instrument rather than a traditional "lead singer". More suggestions on how to explain this would be welcome :cheers:


    alex_canada wrote:I'll weigh in on the growling...
    For growling, I always say it's just a different vocal style. It takes getting used to for most people, kinda like a heavy accent. At first it's just gibberish but then you start to understand the different articulations in the words. Also it sometimes makes it easier to get into once you understand how difficult it is to actually sing death metal for 2 hours straight. It's not just mindless screaming, a lot of preparation goes into it.


    meshuggah wrote:Yep...just like opera singers the same basics of Support, Breath and Placement are applied. If you growl completely in your throat with a raised larynx, you will last about 3 minutes. It's interesting how proper vocal technique spans the gamut across all types of vocal music!


    Good & interesting points. I personally LOVE growls and many other "unusual" vocal styles (as well as all kinds of "traditional singing," of course). Regarding people who don't care for growls from the get-go, I'm not sure if any amount of "explaining it" is going to make a huge difference (in the person liking it or not) - but worth a try at least, I guess. :P ;) Growls are just a "deal-breaker" :lol: for a lot of people. I think there are many other similar examples regarding a person's individual tastes, where this is also true - music and otherwise. Take opera - I consider it an "unusual" vocal style and I like it, but I know there are people who simply hate it. Another example I come across a lot since I'm an arts librarian is how many people really don't care for or "get" a great deal of contemporary art. Haha - it is what it is.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Stained Class » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:00 pm

    Laura wrote:
    meshuggah wrote:When a new band is announced, wife's 1st question is "is this a band with a growler"? If I say yes, I get :cry: , although she's starting to understand that the "growler" is another musical instrument rather than a traditional "lead singer". More suggestions on how to explain this would be welcome :cheers:


    Actually Stained Class wrote:I'll weigh in on the growling...
    For growling, I always say it's just a different vocal style. It takes getting used to for most people, kinda like a heavy accent. At first it's just gibberish but then you start to understand the different articulations in the words. Also it sometimes makes it easier to get into once you understand how difficult it is to actually sing death metal for 2 hours straight. It's not just mindless screaming, a lot of preparation goes into it.


    meshuggah wrote:Yep...just like opera singers the same basics of Support, Breath and Placement are applied. If you growl completely in your throat with a raised larynx, you will last about 3 minutes. It's interesting how proper vocal technique spans the gamut across all types of vocal music!


    Good & interesting points. I personally LOVE growls and many other "unusual" vocal styles (as well as all kinds of "traditional singing," of course). Regarding people who don't care for growls from the get-go, I'm not sure if any amount of "explaining it" is going to make a huge difference (in the person liking it or not) - but worth a try at least, I guess. :P ;) Growls are just a "deal-breaker" :lol: for a lot of people. I think there are many other similar examples regarding a person's individual tastes, where this is also true - music and otherwise. Take opera - I consider it an "unusual" vocal style and I like it, but I know there are people who simply hate it. Another example I come across a lot since I'm an arts librarian is how many people really don't care for or "get" a great deal of contemporary art. Haha - it is what it is.

    I disagree with the sentiment that "either people like it or they don't". I hated it at first but I slowly learned to love it. It's true to a point, but sometimes "explaining" it will make people at least appreciate/respect it more and they can get more into the music side of extreme metal.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Warphine » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:10 pm

    I used to not like so-called "cookie monster" vocals about ten years or so ago... then I heard Opeth and the doors of growling were blown wide open for me.

    Now, I LOVE death metal vocals. Especially death metal vocalists that you can actually understand, like Akerfeldt, Swano, Tagtgren, Tardy, Drunen, Hegg, Alvestam, etc etc.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Stained Class » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:19 pm

    Warphine wrote:I used to not like so-called "cookie monster" vocals about ten years or so ago... then I heard Opeth and the doors of growling were blown wide open for me.

    Now, I LOVE death metal vocals. Especially death metal vocalists that you can actually understand, like Akerfeldt, Swano, Tagtgren, Tardy, Drunen, Hegg, Alvestam, etc etc.

    I agree, but over time slowly it got easier to understand. When I first heard Lamb Of God I had no idea what he was saying, now I go back and I can hear it with almost perfect clarity.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by mfrap » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:28 pm

    I especially love death vocals/growls when they are used with clean vocals. bands like opeth or btbam where the vocals line up with the musical transitions in the songs. growls for the heavy hard parts and clean for the slow or really melodic parts. though there are quite a few bands that fully growl that i love, i'm a sucker for really good clean vocalists like Russell Allen, whom we will all get the oppertunity to hear in all its glory. :bangers: :party: :cheers:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Warphine » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:31 pm

    Stained Class wrote:
    Warphine wrote:I used to not like so-called "cookie monster" vocals about ten years or so ago... then I heard Opeth and the doors of growling were blown wide open for me.

    Now, I LOVE death metal vocals. Especially death metal vocalists that you can actually understand, like Akerfeldt, Swano, Tagtgren, Tardy, Drunen, Hegg, Alvestam, etc etc.

    I agree, but over time slowly it got easier to understand. When I first heard Lamb Of God I had no idea what he was saying, now I go back and I can hear it with almost perfect clarity.


    Yeah, I understand him quite well in Lamb but not in Burn the Priest!! lol.

    Regardless, I still love his work in both "bands".
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Laura » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:47 pm

    Well, I didn't mean to imply that one can *never* learn to like (or even LOVE) something one initially dislikes or even hates. :P Like I said, I think growls (or something like operatic singing) is a "deal-breaker" for a lot of people, and many of those people would not have the interest or patience in pursuing it enough to see if they might like it or at least soften up to it. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. I mean there are only so many hours in a day, days in a year, and so on - why spend a lot of time doing something if you're really not that interested? Joey & Warphine - you guys are obviously big into music as an area of interest/hobby, so it makes sense that you had interest to pursue a new musical avenue if you will. And I am the same way - I'm constantly pushing the musical (and other) "envelopes...." I like to try out/listen to all kinds of new music....but to a point. For example, I'm just not very fond of many of the bands I've heard that are "power metal," and at least for now, I'd rather *focus* on the genres that I really dig. That's not to say that I'll *never* listen to a power metal band, it's just not a priority. Likewise, I wouldn't expect some of the "wives" (or whatever non-extreme metal fans we're talking about) to dive head first into death or black metal.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Stained Class » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:53 pm

    Yeah you're absolutely right. I just don't want people to miss out, and I let them know that they are seriously missing out.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by X-Thor » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:16 pm

    I used to hate growls... Then I heard a Finntroll song (Hekomst) and another by Hypocrisy (Slave to the Parasites, I think) and I liked them... So I started listening to more folk metal with growls and black metal... And now I like pretty much anything.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by onenight » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:02 pm

    If you want to hear some serious death metal growls listen to Broken Hope or Mortician. You will never understand a thing they're saying. It's even hard to follow while reading the lyrics. To me that's death metal the way it should be, brutal all the way! :deathmetal: :deathmetal:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Stained Class » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:10 pm

    Actually for growling vocals I still need it to sound like there are at least words. The current Cryptopsy singer, for example, can't stand him and it kills the music for me.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by strange » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:12 pm

    Cowboy71 wrote:But yeah - she isn't a big fan of melodeath (doesn't mind DT) or thrash or growlers,so that rules out 70% of the current lineup already, and there are no real 'wishlist' bands on the rest of lineup for her either.

    Hey, I like "growlers"! I just prefer balance between the styles, is all. Probably why Eluveitie is currently my favourite band. Because vocals are the hook for me, and I've always gotten into music from the perspective of someone who used to sing I just need a little bit of "clean" vocals to hook me into the rest of it. So bands with nothing but the growling can end up over the course of an entire show or recording a bit grating with nothing to break it up. So yeah, I just like balance.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Laura » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:10 pm

    onenight wrote:If you want to hear some serious death metal growls listen to Broken Hope or Mortician. You will never understand a thing they're saying. It's even hard to follow while reading the lyrics. To me that's death metal the way it should be, brutal all the way! :deathmetal: :deathmetal:


    First of all, I think this subject of "growls" deserves its own thread!! (maybe I'll copy all these posts into a new thread on the Engine Room forum later) Lots of great posts on the topic. And second of all - in keeping with my previous comment about always wanting to try out new things (music and such) - I'm going to listen to Broke Hope and Mortician later on when I get a chance. Thanks for bringing them to my attention. :cheers: Can't promise I'm gonna like 'em of course ;) , but I'll give 'em the "old college try." And yay - just checked Spotify - complete discographies for both bands are on there. Woo-hoo! :cool: :deathmetal:

    Stained Class wrote:Actually for growling vocals I still need it to sound like there are at least words. The current Cryptopsy singer, for example, can't stand him and it kills the music for me.


    When I don't understand the (foreign) language a vocalist is singing in - it becomes simply non-language, pure (instrumental) sound to me. Therefore the comment that Richard (meshuggah) made about thinking of a growl as another "instrument" really applies. I actually really love that about some bands/artists in particular (Taake, Kvelertak, Dir en Grey and others; I wish Dimmu Borgir had continued doing albums in Norwegian rather than English, btw). Similarly, if someone's English vocals are indiscernable, it is just non-language, pure sound to me as well. SInce there are no longer any words to hear, one can just concentrate on the sound as sound and infer the meaning from the emotion it creates in the listener. And I can think of examples outside of metal (like chanting and such), where the vocals are purposely non-word/non-lyrical. I really dig this kind of thing, even though I'm really into lyrics in certain cases, as well.

    P.S. don't know Cryptopsy at all, so no comment - will have to check them out.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Metaladdict187 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:28 pm

    Laura wrote:
    onenight wrote:If you want to hear some serious death metal growls listen to Broken Hope or Mortician. You will never understand a thing they're saying. It's even hard to follow while reading the lyrics. To me that's death metal the way it should be, brutal all the way! :deathmetal: :deathmetal:


    First of all, I think this subject of "growls" deserves its own thread!! (maybe I'll copy all these posts into a new thread on the Engine Room forum later) Lots of great posts on the topic. And second of all - in keeping with my previous comment about always wanting to try out new things (music and such) - I'm going to listen to Broke Hope and Mortician later on when I get a chance. Thanks for bringing them to my attention. :cheers: Can't promise I'm gonna like 'em of course ;) , but I'll give 'em the "old college try." And yay - just checked Spotify - complete discographies for both bands are on there. Woo-hoo! :cool: :deathmetal:

    Stained Class wrote:Actually for growling vocals I still need it to sound like there are at least words. The current Cryptopsy singer, for example, can't stand him and it kills the music for me.


    When I don't understand the (foreign) language a vocalist is singing in - it becomes simply non-language, pure (instrumental) sound to me. Therefore the comment that Richard (meshuggah) made about thinking of a growl as another "instrument" really applies. I actually really love that about some bands/artists in particular (Taake, Kvelertak, Dir en Grey and others; I wish Dimmu Borgir had continued doing albums in Norwegian rather than English, btw). Similarly, if someone's English vocals are indiscernable, it is just non-language, pure sound to me as well. SInce there are no longer any words to hear, one can just concentrate on the sound as sound and infer the meaning from the emotion it creates in the listener. And I can think of examples outside of metal (like chanting and such), where the vocals are purposely non-word/non-lyrical. I really dig this kind of thing, even though I'm really into lyrics in certain cases, as well.

    P.S. don't know Cryptopsy at all, so no comment - will have to check them out.


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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by meshuggah » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:17 pm

    I wonder if Andy is going to announce a "turkey" for Thanksgiving? Which bands would you consider to be turkeys? I'll start with EMMURE
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by DragonLordJones » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:58 pm

    meshuggah wrote:I wonder if Andy is going to announce a "turkey" for Thanksgiving? Which bands would you consider to be turkeys? I'll start with EMMURE


    which bands are turkeys or which bands are from turkey? that is the question :lol: :lol:
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    Chris
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Chris » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:41 am

    I am unaware of any turkey (bird) metal. I am sure there is something out there though...
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Stained Class » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:48 am

    I just realized, have we EVER had an Australian band? Or an East Asian band for that matter?
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Azazel101 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:30 am

    Ok as of now, just now my defamation of a turkey band is a band you generally see once a year but you want to taste that flavor

    Previous thoughts where the band that did not follow and I was going to say Victory was our Turckey

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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by jodionline » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:43 am

    Stained Class wrote:I just realized, have we EVER had an Australian band? Or an East Asian band for that matter?

    I don't know if there were Australian bands on board, but I could imagine that the flight tickets are too expensive. Unfortunately I would love to have Be'lakor on board. :cry: :D
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Stained Class » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:54 am

    jodionline wrote:
    Stained Class wrote:I just realized, have we EVER had an Australian band? Or an East Asian band for that matter?

    I don't know if there were Australian bands on board, but I could imagine that the flight tickets are too expensive. Unfortunately I would love to have Be'lakor on board. :cry: :D

    I want a lot of Australian bands.

    Be'Lakor
    Ne Obliviscaris
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    Chaos Divine
    Alarum
    Psycroptic
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by mfrap » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:13 am

    Stained Class wrote:

    I want a lot of Australian bands.

    Be'Lakor
    Ne Obliviscaris
    Voyager
    Chaos Divine
    Alarum
    Psycroptic[/quote]

    agree. though havent checked out Alarum or Psycroptic. :deathmetal:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by viathyn » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:17 pm

    Yes. yes yes yes. Plus Karnivool.



    Seriously though, Be'lakor, Ne Obliviscaris, and Chaos Divine are all 10/10 bands for me. must seeeeeeee
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Lala » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:23 pm

    Stained Class wrote:Be'Lakor
    Ne Obliviscaris
    Voyager
    Chaos Divine
    Alarum
    Psycroptic


    Never heard of one of these Bands - therefore i'll take Airbourne and AC/DC, plus Midnight Oil and Men at Work...... :bangers:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Stained Class » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:25 pm

    Lala wrote:
    Stained Class wrote:Be'Lakor
    Ne Obliviscaris
    Voyager
    Chaos Divine
    Alarum
    Psycroptic


    Never heard of one of these Bands - therefore i'll take Airbourne and AC/DC, plus Midnight Oil and Men at Work...... :bangers:

    Listen to all of them right now ;)
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by cowboy71 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:40 pm

    Stained Class wrote:Be'Lakor
    Ne Obliviscaris
    Voyager
    Chaos Divine
    Alarum
    Psycroptic

    Your list lacks Bane of Winterstorm, Lord, Vanishing Point, and Claim the Throne.

    Unless it was incorporated into an american tour it would be way too expensive to get a band from down under there.

    And Be'Lakor and Claim the Throne can be ruled out fully as they are gigging locally the week of the cruise.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by mooyagi » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:10 pm

    Stained Class wrote:I just realized, have we EVER had an Australian band? Or an East Asian band for that matter?


    Ne Obliviscaris from Australia, Chthonic from Taiwan and Sigh from Japan? Make it so, Andy! :headbanger:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by gietz » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:31 pm

    Stained Class wrote:I want a lot of Australian bands.

    Be'Lakor
    Ne Obliviscaris
    Voyager
    Chaos Divine
    Alarum
    Psycroptic


    I am partial to any and all of these :bangers:

    cowboy71 wrote:Your list lacks Bane of Winterstorm, Lord, Vanishing Point, and Claim the Throne.

    Unless it was incorporated into an american tour it would be way too expensive to get a band from down under there.

    And Be'Lakor and Claim the Throne can be ruled out fully as they are gigging locally the week of the cruise.


    Claim the Throne would be awesome but unfortunately not to be =/
    Entrails Eradicated are pretty boss too but that also can't happen
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by meshuggah » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:20 pm

    Azazel101 wrote:Ok as of now, just now my defamation of a turkey band is a band you generally see once a year but you want to taste that flavor

    Previous thoughts where the band that did not follow and I was going to say Victory was our Turckey

    Sorry I am practicing for the trip :beerwink: :heavydrink: :chug: :shots: :pound:

    Breakfast drinking may/can be hard to do :cheers:


    My definition of a "turkey" band is a band that there is no way in hell you would even go near one of their sets.
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by Azazel101 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:00 pm

    This trip can not come soon enough
    I really need a break from my normal life
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by DragonLordJones » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:04 pm

    Azazel101 wrote:This trip can not come soon enough
    I really need a break from my normal life



    I hear ya bud ... ready for some fun in the sun :cheers: :beerhorns: :givebeer:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by carlynjason » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:32 pm

    DragonLordJones wrote:
    Azazel101 wrote:This trip can not come soon enough
    I really need a break from my normal life



    I hear ya bud ... ready for some fun in the sun :cheers: :beerhorns: :givebeer:



    pre cruise drinks at my place from now till on the boat, if you can get to Melbourne that is :) :cheers: :cheers:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by DragonLordJones » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:37 pm

    carlynjason wrote:pre cruise drinks at my place from now till on the boat, if you can get to Melbourne that is :) :cheers: :cheers:


    That would be awesome, and I'd jump on the offer if work and my wallet would allow it ....... thanks for the offer (even though I know you only put it out there knowing we couldn't except) :cheers: :stagger:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by NuuX » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:04 am

    Pegazus from Down Under! Awesome weenie band :cool:
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    Re: VICTORY At Sea!

    by cowboy71 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:08 am

    NuuX wrote:Pegazus from Down Under! Awesome weenie band :cool:

    They don't tour that much locally. I've never had a chance to see them live!
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