Post Reply 461 posts
How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?
  • User avatar
    nekrobarr
    Ensign
    Posts: 1293
    Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:29 am
    Location: Michigan
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by nekrobarr » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:59 am

    Pretty crazy 70k is outselling BTH, especially with the better lineup being on the latter.
    Hope both sell more cabins for the sake of future occurrences!
    10-time Survivor
    I <3 Funeral Doom

    Wishlist (First Timers):
    APaleHorseNamedDeath-/-Ahab-/-Arcturus-/-Avantasia-/-Ataraxie-/-BalSagoth-/-BarrenEarth-/-Battlelore-/-Borknagar-/-Crematory-/-DaylightDies-/-DoomVS-/-Doomed-/-Dordeduh-/-Emperor-/-EternalTearsOfSorrow-/-Evoken-/-ForgottenTomb-/-Funeral-/-GhostBrigade-/-Graveworm-/-HellLight-/-Hypocrisy-/-Kuolemanlaakso-/-LacrimasProfundere-/-Loss-/-Luna-/-TheManEatingTree-/-TheMorningside-/-MournfulCongregation-/-Ophis-/-Pantheist-/-Poisonblack-/-Powerwolf-/-Primordial-/-Profetus-/-Prong-/-Remembrance-/-RevelationsOfRain-/-Runemagick-/-Sahg-/-Saturnus-/-SeventhVoid-/-ShapeOfDespair-/-Skepticism-/-SolitudeAeturnus-/-Triptykon-/-WhenNothingRemains-/-WhoDiesInSiberianSlush-/-WolvesInTheThroneRoom

    Wishlist (Repeats):
    Ajattara-/-Candlemass-/-DarkTranquillity-/-Einherjer-/-Enslaved-/-Evergrey-/-Kataklysm-/-Kreator-/-MajesticDownfall-/-Moonsorrow-/-Moonspell-/-MyDyingBride-/-Månegarm-/-NovembersDoom-/-OctoberTide-/-RottingChrist-/-Septicflesh-/-SwallowTheSun-/-Thyrfing
  • User avatar
    cowboy71
    Commander
    Posts: 7368
    Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:52 pm
    Location: Brisbane, Australia
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by cowboy71 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:12 pm

    No more categories sold - need more announcements Andy!

    Also interesting that the old 'pricing' page is gone from the 70k website and when you go to www.70000tons.com/pricing.htm now it goes directly to the booking page.

    Same change has not occurred on the BTH website though.

    Hmmmmm interesting change is interesting.....
    Upcoming Gigs:
    70K
    2020 Wishlist
    Almanac-/-Ancient-Bards-/-Atlas-Pain-/-Avantasia-/-Battlelore-/-Beast-In-Black-/-Believer-/-Bloodbound-/-Brothers-of-Metal-/-Civil-War-/-Circus-Maximus-/-Claymorean-/-Dark-Moor-/-Dark-Sarah-/-Demons-&-Wizards-/-Diabulus-In-Musica-/-Edguy-/-Elvenking-/-Ex-Libris-/-Exit-Eden-/-Frozen-Crown-/-Galderia-/-Heavatar-/-In-This-Moment-/-Jaldaboath-/-Kaledon-/-Kalidia-/-Living-Sacrifice-/-Magnum-/-Metalite-/-Neopera-/-Orden-Ogan-/-Pathfinder-/-Poisonblack-/-Powerwolf-/-The-Privateer-/-Pythia-/-Ravenia-/-Revamp-/-Running-Wild-/-Serenity-/-Sleeping-Romance-/-Sojourner-/-Tarot-/-Ten-/-Thaurorod-/-The-Dark-Element-/-The-Skull-/-Tourniquet-/-Trick-or-Treat-/-Trillium-/-Unisonic-/-Valhalore-/-Within-Temptation
  • User avatar
    mooyagi
    Captain
    Posts: 21241
    Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:25 pm
    Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by mooyagi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:14 pm

    cowboy71 wrote:No more categories sold - need more announcements Andy!

    Also interesting that the old 'pricing' page is gone from the 70k website and when you go to http://www.70000tons.com/pricing.htm now it goes directly to the booking page.

    Same change has not occurred on the BTH website though.

    Hmmmmm interesting change is interesting.....


    Just select your cabin type and it takes you to the page. Odd that the change is only on one cruise though.
    I should get around to updating my signature
  • User avatar
    Monmisreal
    Lieutenant
    Posts: 2587
    Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 3:09 pm
    Location: Palm Harbor, FL

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Monmisreal » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:17 pm

    nekrobarr wrote:Pretty crazy 70k is outselling BTH, especially with the better lineup being on the latter.
    Hope both sell more cabins for the sake of future occurrences!


    I dont think its surprising at all. My first thought the second we found out about barge was "How in the hell are they going to sell out of barge?"
  • User avatar
    cowboy71
    Commander
    Posts: 7368
    Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:52 pm
    Location: Brisbane, Australia
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by cowboy71 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:43 pm

    mooyagi wrote:
    Just select your cabin type and it takes you to the page. Odd that the change is only on one cruise though.

    Yeah i realised you could still get to it that way, I was just intrigued at the change and how the same thing hasn't occured on the Barge website.
    Upcoming Gigs:
    70K
    2020 Wishlist
    Almanac-/-Ancient-Bards-/-Atlas-Pain-/-Avantasia-/-Battlelore-/-Beast-In-Black-/-Believer-/-Bloodbound-/-Brothers-of-Metal-/-Civil-War-/-Circus-Maximus-/-Claymorean-/-Dark-Moor-/-Dark-Sarah-/-Demons-&-Wizards-/-Diabulus-In-Musica-/-Edguy-/-Elvenking-/-Ex-Libris-/-Exit-Eden-/-Frozen-Crown-/-Galderia-/-Heavatar-/-In-This-Moment-/-Jaldaboath-/-Kaledon-/-Kalidia-/-Living-Sacrifice-/-Magnum-/-Metalite-/-Neopera-/-Orden-Ogan-/-Pathfinder-/-Poisonblack-/-Powerwolf-/-The-Privateer-/-Pythia-/-Ravenia-/-Revamp-/-Running-Wild-/-Serenity-/-Sleeping-Romance-/-Sojourner-/-Tarot-/-Ten-/-Thaurorod-/-The-Dark-Element-/-The-Skull-/-Tourniquet-/-Trick-or-Treat-/-Trillium-/-Unisonic-/-Valhalore-/-Within-Temptation
  • User avatar
    Traccia
    Petty Officer
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 pm
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Traccia » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:28 pm

    BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.
    I would have been on it , but for things that are out of my control, I went with 70k.
    I'm really hoping they start announcing some more bands sooner than later. I do hope everyone realizes that most touring bands book waaaay in advance.

    Im getting super impatient with the fact that fuck all has been announced....
  • User avatar
    doomguy
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1907
    Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm
    Location: London, England.
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by doomguy » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:35 pm

    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.
    I would have been on it , but for things that are out of my control, I went with 70k.
    I'm really hoping they start announcing some more bands sooner than later. I do hope everyone realizes that most touring bands book waaaay in advance.

    Im getting super impatient with the fact that fuck all has been announced....

    LOL, I read your rant of FB as well. Welcome to 70,000 Tons of Metal! It happened the previous 2 years, last year was pretty bad. Oh shit you're lucky you didn't go this year or you might not have any hair left! There was a point when there was no communication at all for a couple months, EVERYONE was stressing, even organised a boycott of the forum or something. And when they finally announced something, it was a band no one cared about, haha. I think everyone was both relieved and happy that there had been an announcement finally, but also mad because it was a shit band they'd been waiting for many weeks for.

    But in the end, when you get on the boat, you'll have so much fun you'll forget about all the stress UMC puts you through... and then you'll do it all over again the next year :lol:
    2012: 2093
    2015: 8671
    2016: 7515

    2019 Wishlist:
    AHAB-Alcest-AbigailWilliams-AlienWeaponry-Borknagar-Candlemass-ClaudioSimonetti'sGoblin-Damnation'sDay-DavidMaximMicic-DiabloSwingOrchestra-MournfulCongregation-Om-ProphetsOfRage-Sevendust-Silvertomb-SleepTerror-SunnO)))-TheContortionist-VanCanto
  • User avatar
    Traccia
    Petty Officer
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 pm
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Traccia » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:46 pm

    Conrad wrote:
    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.
    I would have been on it , but for things that are out of my control, I went with 70k.
    I'm really hoping they start announcing some more bands sooner than later. I do hope everyone realizes that most touring bands book waaaay in advance.

    Im getting super impatient with the fact that fuck all has been announced....

    LOL, I read your rant of FB as well. Welcome to 70,000 Tons of Metal! It happened the previous 2 years, last year was pretty bad. Oh shit you're lucky you didn't go this year or you might not have any hair left! There was a point when there was no communication at all for a couple months, EVERYONE was stressing, even organised a boycott of the forum or something. And when they finally announced something, it was a band no one cared about, haha. I think everyone was both relieved and happy that there had been an announcement finally, but also mad because it was a shit band they'd been waiting for many weeks for.

    But in the end, when you get on the boat, you'll have so much fun you'll forget about all the stress UMC puts you through... and then you'll do it all over again the next year :lol:


    Firsdt of all, i cant do these quote things for shit....

    Second, i KNOW im going to have the most fun ive ever had... I kKNOOOOOW it.... Im just frustrated .... and upset that BTH has a better line up.... lol.... Jealous, perhaps??? Probably... But the thing is, I KNOW how booking works... and it really annoys me when i read that scouts are here or there looking for the next band... I call SHENANIGANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • User avatar
    mooyagi
    Captain
    Posts: 21241
    Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:25 pm
    Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by mooyagi » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:26 am

    Conrad wrote:
    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.
    I would have been on it , but for things that are out of my control, I went with 70k.
    I'm really hoping they start announcing some more bands sooner than later. I do hope everyone realizes that most touring bands book waaaay in advance.

    Im getting super impatient with the fact that fuck all has been announced....

    LOL, I read your rant of FB as well. Welcome to 70,000 Tons of Metal! It happened the previous 2 years, last year was pretty bad. Oh shit you're lucky you didn't go this year or you might not have any hair left! There was a point when there was no communication at all for a couple months, EVERYONE was stressing, even organised a boycott of the forum or something. And when they finally announced something, it was a band no one cared about, haha. I think everyone was both relieved and happy that there had been an announcement finally, but also mad because it was a shit band they'd been waiting for many weeks for.

    But in the end, when you get on the boat, you'll have so much fun you'll forget about all the stress UMC puts you through... and then you'll do it all over again the next year :lol:


    Oh I remember the boycott. While we were boycotting the forum had gotten bombed by a spambot. Horribly, horribly bombed. I think the band was Channel Zero.
    I should get around to updating my signature
  • User avatar
    Evil Red
    Midshipman
    Posts: 672
    Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:52 pm
    Location: Seattle, WA USA

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Evil Red » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:31 am

    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.


    Everyday on the Barge To Hell IS Christmas!
    I made the Devil do it.
  • User avatar
    DrinkMoxie
    Commander
    Posts: 8279
    Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:31 pm
    Location: McKees Rocks, PA
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by DrinkMoxie » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:34 am

    Conrad wrote:
    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.
    I would have been on it , but for things that are out of my control, I went with 70k.
    I'm really hoping they start announcing some more bands sooner than later. I do hope everyone realizes that most touring bands book waaaay in advance.

    Im getting super impatient with the fact that fuck all has been announced....

    LOL, I read your rant of FB as well. Welcome to 70,000 Tons of Metal! It happened the previous 2 years, last year was pretty bad. Oh shit you're lucky you didn't go this year or you might not have any hair left! There was a point when there was no communication at all for a couple months, EVERYONE was stressing, even organised a boycott of the forum or something. And when they finally announced something, it was a band no one cared about, haha. I think everyone was both relieved and happy that there had been an announcement finally, but also mad because it was a shit band they'd been waiting for many weeks for.

    But in the end, when you get on the boat, you'll have so much fun you'll forget about all the stress UMC puts you through... and then you'll do it all over again the next year :lol:

    If I remember right, the band announced after the boycott was God Dethroned... since I suggested and planned the boycott day and then they announced the only band I'd emailed UMC to ask about, I was on cloud 9
    Borknagar-Powerwolf-FolkEarth-Metalachi-GreenCarnation-Atoma-JulieLaughsNomore-Skyfire-BlackKirin-Shangren-WitheredBeauty-...AndOceans-Hypocrisy-Nightfall-Gardenian-AblazeMySorrow-WithoutGrief-ACanorousQuintet-BurdenOfGrief-Excretion-CardinalSin-CallenishCircle-InThyDreams-EternalLies-Miscreant-Eucharist-BuriedDreams-Shadow-Amsvartner-EbonyTears-ManipulatedSlaves-NailWithin-Flying-Dispatched-NeglectedFields-LegionOfTheDamned-CarnalForge-Gojira-RiverBlack-CarBomb-Damaged-Xentrix-LakeOfTears-Neurosis-Conjurer-Minsk-Mindrot-Morgion-EyesOfFire-DestroyJudas-Dyscarnate-Exhorder-Onslaught-Sargon-Sacrifice-Sodom-Darkane-Nothnegal-TheCrown-CeremonialOath-SinsOfOmission-EternalTearsOfSorrow-Sigh-Whispered-Jaldaboath-DescendIntoNothingness-CrestOfDarkness-Carcariass-In~Quest-Anata-Bal*Sagoth-Witherscape-DimensionZero-MentalHome-Myrath-Illogicist-Hacride-Acrassicauda-Impious-NightInGales-EndOfGreen-SpiralArchitect-EphelDuath-Nostromo-DimensionF3H-RedHarvest-Vinterland-Heidevolk-GreenJello-Pist*On-Zimmer'sHole-Trepalium-Vintersorg-UnleashTheArchers-SamBlackChurch-Downpour-SevendayCurse-GreySkiesFallen-DaylightDies-MyHiddenSin-ThisEnding-FrostGiant-TheAbsence-LightThisCity-Dagon-ConditionCritical-GospelOfTheWitches-BlackEarth-FrostyEve-MeadowsEnd-ComposMentis-InThousandLakes-TheZephyr-FragmentsOfUnbecoming-Seducer'sEmbrace-TheExcrementoryGrindfuckers-Whitesnake-WhiteZombie-SkidRow(w/SebastianBach)-AtTheGates-Atheist-DevinTownsend-Emperor-Haggard-Candlemass-OrphanedLand-Wintersun

    cabin 3013 (2012)
    cabin 9560 (2014)
    cabin 8671 (2015)
    cabin 7313 (2017)
    cabin 6525 (2018)
  • User avatar
    DrinkMoxie
    Commander
    Posts: 8279
    Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:31 pm
    Location: McKees Rocks, PA
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by DrinkMoxie » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:40 am

    mooyagi wrote:
    Conrad wrote:
    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.
    I would have been on it , but for things that are out of my control, I went with 70k.
    I'm really hoping they start announcing some more bands sooner than later. I do hope everyone realizes that most touring bands book waaaay in advance.

    Im getting super impatient with the fact that fuck all has been announced....

    LOL, I read your rant of FB as well. Welcome to 70,000 Tons of Metal! It happened the previous 2 years, last year was pretty bad. Oh shit you're lucky you didn't go this year or you might not have any hair left! There was a point when there was no communication at all for a couple months, EVERYONE was stressing, even organised a boycott of the forum or something. And when they finally announced something, it was a band no one cared about, haha. I think everyone was both relieved and happy that there had been an announcement finally, but also mad because it was a shit band they'd been waiting for many weeks for.

    But in the end, when you get on the boat, you'll have so much fun you'll forget about all the stress UMC puts you through... and then you'll do it all over again the next year :lol:


    Oh I remember the boycott. While we were boycotting the forum had gotten bombed by a spambot. Horribly, horribly bombed. I think the band was Channel Zero.

    Chanel Zero wasn't announced until December... but yeah, the spambot ruined all thought of a future forum boycott, that was soooo crazy
    Borknagar-Powerwolf-FolkEarth-Metalachi-GreenCarnation-Atoma-JulieLaughsNomore-Skyfire-BlackKirin-Shangren-WitheredBeauty-...AndOceans-Hypocrisy-Nightfall-Gardenian-AblazeMySorrow-WithoutGrief-ACanorousQuintet-BurdenOfGrief-Excretion-CardinalSin-CallenishCircle-InThyDreams-EternalLies-Miscreant-Eucharist-BuriedDreams-Shadow-Amsvartner-EbonyTears-ManipulatedSlaves-NailWithin-Flying-Dispatched-NeglectedFields-LegionOfTheDamned-CarnalForge-Gojira-RiverBlack-CarBomb-Damaged-Xentrix-LakeOfTears-Neurosis-Conjurer-Minsk-Mindrot-Morgion-EyesOfFire-DestroyJudas-Dyscarnate-Exhorder-Onslaught-Sargon-Sacrifice-Sodom-Darkane-Nothnegal-TheCrown-CeremonialOath-SinsOfOmission-EternalTearsOfSorrow-Sigh-Whispered-Jaldaboath-DescendIntoNothingness-CrestOfDarkness-Carcariass-In~Quest-Anata-Bal*Sagoth-Witherscape-DimensionZero-MentalHome-Myrath-Illogicist-Hacride-Acrassicauda-Impious-NightInGales-EndOfGreen-SpiralArchitect-EphelDuath-Nostromo-DimensionF3H-RedHarvest-Vinterland-Heidevolk-GreenJello-Pist*On-Zimmer'sHole-Trepalium-Vintersorg-UnleashTheArchers-SamBlackChurch-Downpour-SevendayCurse-GreySkiesFallen-DaylightDies-MyHiddenSin-ThisEnding-FrostGiant-TheAbsence-LightThisCity-Dagon-ConditionCritical-GospelOfTheWitches-BlackEarth-FrostyEve-MeadowsEnd-ComposMentis-InThousandLakes-TheZephyr-FragmentsOfUnbecoming-Seducer'sEmbrace-TheExcrementoryGrindfuckers-Whitesnake-WhiteZombie-SkidRow(w/SebastianBach)-AtTheGates-Atheist-DevinTownsend-Emperor-Haggard-Candlemass-OrphanedLand-Wintersun

    cabin 3013 (2012)
    cabin 9560 (2014)
    cabin 8671 (2015)
    cabin 7313 (2017)
    cabin 6525 (2018)
  • User avatar
    doomguy
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1907
    Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm
    Location: London, England.
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by doomguy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:14 pm

    mooyagi wrote:
    Conrad wrote:
    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.
    I would have been on it , but for things that are out of my control, I went with 70k.
    I'm really hoping they start announcing some more bands sooner than later. I do hope everyone realizes that most touring bands book waaaay in advance.

    Im getting super impatient with the fact that fuck all has been announced....

    LOL, I read your rant of FB as well. Welcome to 70,000 Tons of Metal! It happened the previous 2 years, last year was pretty bad. Oh shit you're lucky you didn't go this year or you might not have any hair left! There was a point when there was no communication at all for a couple months, EVERYONE was stressing, even organised a boycott of the forum or something. And when they finally announced something, it was a band no one cared about, haha. I think everyone was both relieved and happy that there had been an announcement finally, but also mad because it was a shit band they'd been waiting for many weeks for.

    But in the end, when you get on the boat, you'll have so much fun you'll forget about all the stress UMC puts you through... and then you'll do it all over again the next year :lol:


    Oh I remember the boycott. While we were boycotting the forum had gotten bombed by a spambot. Horribly, horribly bombed. I think the band was Channel Zero.

    :lol: I don't remember the spambots. UMC probably sent them here as a FUCK YOU for the boycott, lol. I think the band announced was Pretty Maids? Because i seem to recall when Children of Bodom was announced no one was really excited about it, then there was a couple months before the next announcement which was Pretty Maids, which a lot of people where disappointed with because they'd waited so long for an announcement of a band they didn't know anything about.
    2012: 2093
    2015: 8671
    2016: 7515

    2019 Wishlist:
    AHAB-Alcest-AbigailWilliams-AlienWeaponry-Borknagar-Candlemass-ClaudioSimonetti'sGoblin-Damnation'sDay-DavidMaximMicic-DiabloSwingOrchestra-MournfulCongregation-Om-ProphetsOfRage-Sevendust-Silvertomb-SleepTerror-SunnO)))-TheContortionist-VanCanto
  • User avatar
    DrinkMoxie
    Commander
    Posts: 8279
    Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 8:31 pm
    Location: McKees Rocks, PA
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by DrinkMoxie » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:21 pm

    the post boycott announcement was God Dethroned... I'm NOT guessing
    Borknagar-Powerwolf-FolkEarth-Metalachi-GreenCarnation-Atoma-JulieLaughsNomore-Skyfire-BlackKirin-Shangren-WitheredBeauty-...AndOceans-Hypocrisy-Nightfall-Gardenian-AblazeMySorrow-WithoutGrief-ACanorousQuintet-BurdenOfGrief-Excretion-CardinalSin-CallenishCircle-InThyDreams-EternalLies-Miscreant-Eucharist-BuriedDreams-Shadow-Amsvartner-EbonyTears-ManipulatedSlaves-NailWithin-Flying-Dispatched-NeglectedFields-LegionOfTheDamned-CarnalForge-Gojira-RiverBlack-CarBomb-Damaged-Xentrix-LakeOfTears-Neurosis-Conjurer-Minsk-Mindrot-Morgion-EyesOfFire-DestroyJudas-Dyscarnate-Exhorder-Onslaught-Sargon-Sacrifice-Sodom-Darkane-Nothnegal-TheCrown-CeremonialOath-SinsOfOmission-EternalTearsOfSorrow-Sigh-Whispered-Jaldaboath-DescendIntoNothingness-CrestOfDarkness-Carcariass-In~Quest-Anata-Bal*Sagoth-Witherscape-DimensionZero-MentalHome-Myrath-Illogicist-Hacride-Acrassicauda-Impious-NightInGales-EndOfGreen-SpiralArchitect-EphelDuath-Nostromo-DimensionF3H-RedHarvest-Vinterland-Heidevolk-GreenJello-Pist*On-Zimmer'sHole-Trepalium-Vintersorg-UnleashTheArchers-SamBlackChurch-Downpour-SevendayCurse-GreySkiesFallen-DaylightDies-MyHiddenSin-ThisEnding-FrostGiant-TheAbsence-LightThisCity-Dagon-ConditionCritical-GospelOfTheWitches-BlackEarth-FrostyEve-MeadowsEnd-ComposMentis-InThousandLakes-TheZephyr-FragmentsOfUnbecoming-Seducer'sEmbrace-TheExcrementoryGrindfuckers-Whitesnake-WhiteZombie-SkidRow(w/SebastianBach)-AtTheGates-Atheist-DevinTownsend-Emperor-Haggard-Candlemass-OrphanedLand-Wintersun

    cabin 3013 (2012)
    cabin 9560 (2014)
    cabin 8671 (2015)
    cabin 7313 (2017)
    cabin 6525 (2018)
  • User avatar
    Jebus_Cripes
    Chief Petty Officer
    Posts: 616
    Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:03 am
    Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Jebus_Cripes » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:32 pm

    Yeah the original boycott period was because of no announcements from July 5th to August 13th when God Dethroned and Tankard were announced. But there was an even longer period from October 15th to December 6th where Pretty Maids was announced on the 6th.
    2014 WL: Kalmah\Dark Tranquillity\Amon Amarth\Blind Guardian\Insomnium\At the Gates\Before the Dawn\Be'Lakor\Dark Age\Omnium Gatherum\Hypocrisy\Suidakra\Scar Symmetry\Skyfire\Gojira\Ghost\Swallow the Sun\Wintersun\Gardenian\Immortal\Rotting Christ
  • User avatar
    doomguy
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1907
    Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm
    Location: London, England.
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by doomguy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:43 pm

    DrinkMoxie wrote:the post boycott announcement was God Dethroned... I'm NOT guessing

    Take a chill pill before you have a temper tantrum, I'm not doubting you. You're probably right, maybe the boycott was unrelated to the long gap between announcements I was thinking of. Details are a bit hazy regarding the boycott to me, because i'm not a regular forum user as much as you are, you can tell by my post count relative to my join date. But i'm not guessing either regarding the gap between the COB and Pretty maids announcements being longer than the Hammerfall/God Dethroned one.
    2012: 2093
    2015: 8671
    2016: 7515

    2019 Wishlist:
    AHAB-Alcest-AbigailWilliams-AlienWeaponry-Borknagar-Candlemass-ClaudioSimonetti'sGoblin-Damnation'sDay-DavidMaximMicic-DiabloSwingOrchestra-MournfulCongregation-Om-ProphetsOfRage-Sevendust-Silvertomb-SleepTerror-SunnO)))-TheContortionist-VanCanto
  • User avatar
    mooyagi
    Captain
    Posts: 21241
    Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:25 pm
    Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by mooyagi » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:57 pm

    Where's Stats Man? He can confirm the info for us :lol:
    I should get around to updating my signature
  • User avatar
    doomguy
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1907
    Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm
    Location: London, England.
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by doomguy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:16 pm

    I was thinking the same thing.

    Calling Stats Man, do you copy?!
    2012: 2093
    2015: 8671
    2016: 7515

    2019 Wishlist:
    AHAB-Alcest-AbigailWilliams-AlienWeaponry-Borknagar-Candlemass-ClaudioSimonetti'sGoblin-Damnation'sDay-DavidMaximMicic-DiabloSwingOrchestra-MournfulCongregation-Om-ProphetsOfRage-Sevendust-Silvertomb-SleepTerror-SunnO)))-TheContortionist-VanCanto
  • User avatar
    Jebus_Cripes
    Chief Petty Officer
    Posts: 616
    Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:03 am
    Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Jebus_Cripes » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:28 pm

    I already posted the lengths of time 3 posts up confirming the COB to Pretty Maids dry spell was longer and here is the boycott thread:
    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1881&hilit=boycott

    Started August 3rd by none other than Moxie himself.

    Can you guys do nothing without statsman? Sheesh.
    2014 WL: Kalmah\Dark Tranquillity\Amon Amarth\Blind Guardian\Insomnium\At the Gates\Before the Dawn\Be'Lakor\Dark Age\Omnium Gatherum\Hypocrisy\Suidakra\Scar Symmetry\Skyfire\Gojira\Ghost\Swallow the Sun\Wintersun\Gardenian\Immortal\Rotting Christ
  • User avatar
    doomguy
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1907
    Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm
    Location: London, England.
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by doomguy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:42 pm

    No i did a forum search and found that thread as well, just didn't mention it. I also searched for the past announcements which is why I mentioned what I said regarding the gap between announcements wasn't guesswork either. No biggie, it was just a joke, we know what the statistics are, we don't really need statsman.
    2012: 2093
    2015: 8671
    2016: 7515

    2019 Wishlist:
    AHAB-Alcest-AbigailWilliams-AlienWeaponry-Borknagar-Candlemass-ClaudioSimonetti'sGoblin-Damnation'sDay-DavidMaximMicic-DiabloSwingOrchestra-MournfulCongregation-Om-ProphetsOfRage-Sevendust-Silvertomb-SleepTerror-SunnO)))-TheContortionist-VanCanto
  • User avatar
    mooyagi
    Captain
    Posts: 21241
    Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:25 pm
    Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by mooyagi » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:48 pm

    Jebus_Cripes wrote:I already posted the lengths of time 3 posts up confirming the COB to Pretty Maids dry spell was longer and here is the boycott thread:
    http://www.70000tons.com/forum/viewtopi ... it=boycott

    Started August 3rd by none other than Moxie himself.

    Can you guys do nothing without statsman? Sheesh.


    Why do the work myself when I can throw out the Statsman request and have someone do it for me? :P
    I should get around to updating my signature
  • User avatar
    STACH100
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1589
    Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:46 pm

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by STACH100 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:21 pm

    mooyagi wrote:
    Jebus_Cripes wrote:I already posted the lengths of time 3 posts up confirming the COB to Pretty Maids dry spell was longer and here is the boycott thread:
    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1881&hilit=boycott

    Started August 3rd by none other than Moxie himself.

    Can you guys do nothing without statsman? Sheesh.


    Why do the work myself when I can throw out the Statsman request and have someone do it for me? :P

    Exactly and why should Andy announce bands early when the first 2 cruises sold out doing what he is doing now?
    Or at least I guess is Andy's thought process.
    2011 6084
    2012 9560
    2013 9574
    2014 TBA
  • User avatar
    doomguy
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1907
    Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm
    Location: London, England.
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by doomguy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:25 pm

    He might be regretting that thought process come December when BTH is only half empty.
    2012: 2093
    2015: 8671
    2016: 7515

    2019 Wishlist:
    AHAB-Alcest-AbigailWilliams-AlienWeaponry-Borknagar-Candlemass-ClaudioSimonetti'sGoblin-Damnation'sDay-DavidMaximMicic-DiabloSwingOrchestra-MournfulCongregation-Om-ProphetsOfRage-Sevendust-Silvertomb-SleepTerror-SunnO)))-TheContortionist-VanCanto
  • User avatar
    KDibildeaux
    Captain
    Posts: 13904
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:07 pm
    Location: Tucson, AZ

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by KDibildeaux » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:01 pm

    Conrad wrote:He might be regretting that thought process come December when BTH is only half empty.

    But for that one he announced half the lineup at once! :cry:
    La sabiduría me persigue................pero yo soy más rápida
  • User avatar
    Traccia
    Petty Officer
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 pm
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Traccia » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:01 pm

    This is my first cruise ever... I dont know about festival cruises, but I do know about booking...

    That is all...

    Im sure its more complicated, considering we will be out at sea...

    Plus, with the money Im spending on this cruise, I wish they would be a little more considerate and post more bands sooner...
    Thats all...

    When i rant, thats just what it is...
    Some italian bitch, way to hyped up at the moment...

    Anyone who knows Italian women, knows this to be true.... Im the first to admit it!!! haha! :lol:
  • User avatar
    Traccia
    Petty Officer
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 pm
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Traccia » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:07 pm

    Evil Red wrote:
    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.


    Everyday on the Barge To Hell IS Christmas!



    haha! I bet it will be! Like I said, I would LOOOVE to be on that cruise as well.... But I have two very young children (21 months and 4 1/2) that will not stand for me to be gone at that time... Plus, I am almost positive I will be very broke by the end of 70k.... Cant be broke during December.... :beerwink:
  • User avatar
    cowboy71
    Commander
    Posts: 7368
    Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:52 pm
    Location: Brisbane, Australia
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by cowboy71 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:11 pm

    HAHAHA - my stat signal was not working :P

    Image

    We certainly have had some long waits between bands over the years, haven't we?

    The figures for 2012 vs 2013 are very similar. At this time of the year for the 2012 cruise there had been 15 bands announced (and as mentioned we were in the middle of a loooong gap between Hammerfall on Jul 4 and God Dethroned/Tankard on Aug 14).

    So given that there is the same number of bands to be announced as there was at this time last year, we could still end up with a stupid long wait between bands like there was between CoB on 16 October to Pretty Maids on 7 December.

    Which, as I've said many times before, SUCKS. 27 bands to go, about 25 weeks to 70K 2013. Why not just announce a band a week?

    Why have gaps of 50+ days between band announcements?
    Upcoming Gigs:
    70K
    2020 Wishlist
    Almanac-/-Ancient-Bards-/-Atlas-Pain-/-Avantasia-/-Battlelore-/-Beast-In-Black-/-Believer-/-Bloodbound-/-Brothers-of-Metal-/-Civil-War-/-Circus-Maximus-/-Claymorean-/-Dark-Moor-/-Dark-Sarah-/-Demons-&-Wizards-/-Diabulus-In-Musica-/-Edguy-/-Elvenking-/-Ex-Libris-/-Exit-Eden-/-Frozen-Crown-/-Galderia-/-Heavatar-/-In-This-Moment-/-Jaldaboath-/-Kaledon-/-Kalidia-/-Living-Sacrifice-/-Magnum-/-Metalite-/-Neopera-/-Orden-Ogan-/-Pathfinder-/-Poisonblack-/-Powerwolf-/-The-Privateer-/-Pythia-/-Ravenia-/-Revamp-/-Running-Wild-/-Serenity-/-Sleeping-Romance-/-Sojourner-/-Tarot-/-Ten-/-Thaurorod-/-The-Dark-Element-/-The-Skull-/-Tourniquet-/-Trick-or-Treat-/-Trillium-/-Unisonic-/-Valhalore-/-Within-Temptation
  • User avatar
    doomguy
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1907
    Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm
    Location: London, England.
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by doomguy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:32 pm

    Fuckin' legend! You deserve a DB. Do you remember all the stats, or do you do a quick search before you compile them?

    And maybe because they don't have a band to announce every week?
    2012: 2093
    2015: 8671
    2016: 7515

    2019 Wishlist:
    AHAB-Alcest-AbigailWilliams-AlienWeaponry-Borknagar-Candlemass-ClaudioSimonetti'sGoblin-Damnation'sDay-DavidMaximMicic-DiabloSwingOrchestra-MournfulCongregation-Om-ProphetsOfRage-Sevendust-Silvertomb-SleepTerror-SunnO)))-TheContortionist-VanCanto
  • User avatar
    hornile
    Oiler
    Posts: 41
    Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 12:10 am
    Location: Göppingen, Germany
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by hornile » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:04 am

    Traccia wrote:
    Evil Red wrote:
    Traccia wrote:BTH couldn't be at a worse time. Being 22 days before Christmas and the holidays.


    Everyday on the Barge To Hell IS Christmas!



    haha! I bet it will be! Like I said, I would LOOOVE to be on that cruise as well.... But I have two very young children (21 months and 4 1/2) that will not stand for me to be gone at that time... Plus, I am almost positive I will be very broke by the end of 70k.... Cant be broke during December.... :beerwink:


    Why not take the kids with you on board? At least the 4 1/2 yr old would probably enjoy the cruise...
    70k 2013 survivor
    (cabin 6040)

    70k 2015 survivor
    (cabin 7275)

    70k 2016 survivor
    (cabin 9284)

    70k 2019 ....hope to survive
  • User avatar
    jodionline
    Ensign
    Posts: 1209
    Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:07 am
    Location: Oberfranken, Germany
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by jodionline » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:38 am

    And then ?

    Will you go to bed if the kids have to go ? Or will you leave them alone in the room ? For me that's impossible. A babyphone will you not hear at a concert I think. I think a festival is nothing for very young kids. I wouldn't go with me son until he is 12 or older.
    Metal is forever! Peace for all - Fuck fanatics.

    Please bring Undertow on board.
    https://open.spotify.com/album/5G5rYHx6E4MxdYHE3TG8Xn

    Survivor: 2013, 2014, 2016
  • User avatar
    cowboy71
    Commander
    Posts: 7368
    Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:52 pm
    Location: Brisbane, Australia
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by cowboy71 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:50 am

    Conrad wrote:Fuckin' legend! You deserve a DB. Do you remember all the stats, or do you do a quick search before you compile them?

    And maybe because they don't have a band to announce every week?

    Yeah I remember most of these things - I'm terrible with names but for some reason I have a pretty good memory for statistics :P
    Upcoming Gigs:
    70K
    2020 Wishlist
    Almanac-/-Ancient-Bards-/-Atlas-Pain-/-Avantasia-/-Battlelore-/-Beast-In-Black-/-Believer-/-Bloodbound-/-Brothers-of-Metal-/-Civil-War-/-Circus-Maximus-/-Claymorean-/-Dark-Moor-/-Dark-Sarah-/-Demons-&-Wizards-/-Diabulus-In-Musica-/-Edguy-/-Elvenking-/-Ex-Libris-/-Exit-Eden-/-Frozen-Crown-/-Galderia-/-Heavatar-/-In-This-Moment-/-Jaldaboath-/-Kaledon-/-Kalidia-/-Living-Sacrifice-/-Magnum-/-Metalite-/-Neopera-/-Orden-Ogan-/-Pathfinder-/-Poisonblack-/-Powerwolf-/-The-Privateer-/-Pythia-/-Ravenia-/-Revamp-/-Running-Wild-/-Serenity-/-Sleeping-Romance-/-Sojourner-/-Tarot-/-Ten-/-Thaurorod-/-The-Dark-Element-/-The-Skull-/-Tourniquet-/-Trick-or-Treat-/-Trillium-/-Unisonic-/-Valhalore-/-Within-Temptation
  • User avatar
    doomguy
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1907
    Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm
    Location: London, England.
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by doomguy » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:09 am

    cowboy71 wrote:
    Conrad wrote:Fuckin' legend! You deserve a DB. Do you remember all the stats, or do you do a quick search before you compile them?

    And maybe because they don't have a band to announce every week?

    Yeah I remember most of these things - I'm terrible with names but for some reason I have a pretty good memory for statistics :P

    Impressive :beerwink:
    2012: 2093
    2015: 8671
    2016: 7515

    2019 Wishlist:
    AHAB-Alcest-AbigailWilliams-AlienWeaponry-Borknagar-Candlemass-ClaudioSimonetti'sGoblin-Damnation'sDay-DavidMaximMicic-DiabloSwingOrchestra-MournfulCongregation-Om-ProphetsOfRage-Sevendust-Silvertomb-SleepTerror-SunnO)))-TheContortionist-VanCanto
  • User avatar
    STACH100
    Sub-Lieutenant
    Posts: 1589
    Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:46 pm

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by STACH100 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:39 am

    BTH's problem is the type of bands is not as varied, hence a smaller pool of potential cruisers.
    Your Powermetallers and Folk Metal fans will stay away, etc. Especially when there is a cruise that
    has all of that just a few weeks later.
    2011 6084
    2012 9560
    2013 9574
    2014 TBA
  • User avatar
    Traccia
    Petty Officer
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 pm
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Traccia » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:58 am

    hornile wrote::


    Why not take the kids with you on board? At least the 4 1/2 yr old would probably enjoy the cruise...[/quote]


    lol... He probably would enjoy the cruise... But would I??? No.

    My son goes to bed at 8-9pm.... I dont. Right now, Id rather take him to a more local show than a festival cruise.... A bit to young. There is no way I want to be in bed, on cruise, at 9pm. lol.

    He has a few years of growing to do first.
  • User avatar
    Traccia
    Petty Officer
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 pm
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Traccia » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:59 am

    jodionline wrote:And then ?

    Will you go to bed if the kids have to go ? Or will you leave them alone in the room ? For me that's impossible. A babyphone will you not hear at a concert I think. I think a festival is nothing for very young kids. I wouldn't go with me son until he is 12 or older.


    I completely 100% agree...
  • User avatar
    Blackfhyre
    Ensign
    Posts: 1074
    Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:02 am
    Location: Midgar
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Blackfhyre » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:46 am

    Traccia wrote:
    jodionline wrote:And then ?

    Will you go to bed if the kids have to go ? Or will you leave them alone in the room ? For me that's impossible. A babyphone will you not hear at a concert I think. I think a festival is nothing for very young kids. I wouldn't go with me son until he is 12 or older.


    I completely 100% agree...


    plus thats another expensive plane and ship ticket
    Demons&Wizards-RhapsodyReunion-Slayer-Sevendust-AshesofAres-StarOne-Ayreon-DVDA-SevenKingdoms-CivilWar-Falconer-KillingMachine-Avantasia-Hollenthon-LucasRhapsody-MacGyverMetal-ElvenKing-PaulDiAnno-BlayzeBailey-Twilightning-HammerKing-CainsOffering-AllenLande-BlackMages-PagansMind-UnleashtheArchers-AdrenalineMob-SilentAssasins-SonsofLiberty-Pyramaze-IamI-KnightoftheRound-ShadowsFall-Mastadon-Down-XJapan-IronFire-HumanFortress-Unisonic-Axenstar-Myrath-BlackMajesty-Heimdall-Stormwind-NeverLand-Fairyland-GhostMachinery-RunningWild-Yngwie-RiveraBomma-SavageCircus-DreamTheater-ToxicHalocaust-Bumblefoot-Dalriada-Havok-Revamp-AxelRudiPell-Hevisaurus-Savatage-SevenWitches-Accept-KSE-EricCaldone
    Sabaton-SymphonyX-BlindGuardian-Rage-Refuge-GloryHammer-Epica-Firewind-GammaRay-Hammerfall-IcedEarth-JagPanzer-Stratovarius-Tyr-Turisas-TwilightForce-Tsjuder-Dragonforce-Overkill-Edguy-Evergrey-Whiplash-MetalChurch-Heidevolk-Helloween-Ensiferum-Helstar-Wintersun-PrimalFear-Alestorm-SonataArctica-Arkona-Finntroll-FreedomCall-RisingStorm-CircleIICircle-AmonAmarth-Kreator-Nervosa-VisionsofAtlantis--Crowbar-Nightwish-Flotsam&Jetsam-Cripper-Izegrim-HolyMoses-Haggard-Nekrogoblikon-Poltergeist-MunicipalWaste-Bodom-Raven-Soilwork-Swashbuckle-HolyGrail-InFlames-Onslaught-3Inches
    IV
    2011 Survivor
    2012 Survivor
    2013 Cockburn Survivor
    2014 Survivor
    2015 Survivor
    2016 No Sleep
    2017 Survivor
    2018 9553
  • User avatar
    Traccia
    Petty Officer
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 pm
    Contact:

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Traccia » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:17 am

    Actually, I live in South Florida....
    ;)
  • User avatar
    mooyagi
    Captain
    Posts: 21241
    Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:25 pm
    Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by mooyagi » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:08 am

    cowboy71 wrote:
    Conrad wrote:Fuckin' legend! You deserve a DB. Do you remember all the stats, or do you do a quick search before you compile them?

    And maybe because they don't have a band to announce every week?

    Yeah I remember most of these things - I'm terrible with names but for some reason I have a pretty good memory for statistics :P


    Liar :P
    I should get around to updating my signature
  • User avatar
    mooyagi
    Captain
    Posts: 21241
    Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:25 pm
    Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by mooyagi » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:09 am

    STACH100 wrote:BTH's problem is the type of bands is not as varied, hence a smaller pool of potential cruisers.
    Your Powermetallers and Folk Metal fans will stay away, etc. Especially when there is a cruise that
    has all of that just a few weeks later.


    I'm going on Barge :D Even though I love power and folk metal, I much prefer the Barge lineup at this point.
    I should get around to updating my signature
  • User avatar
    Monmisreal
    Lieutenant
    Posts: 2587
    Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 3:09 pm
    Location: Palm Harbor, FL

    Re: How fast will 70K 2013 sell out?

    by Monmisreal » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:19 am

    STACH100 wrote:Especially when there is a cruise that has all of that just a few weeks later.


    That was pretty much why I didnt book barge. Im not the biggest fan of the bands announced, good thing I didnt book, but I cant do a cruise a month for two straight months.
Post Reply 461 posts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 66 guests