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2017 Set Length Speculation

by Jotunheimr » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:48 pm

It's never too soon to start speculating about set lengths for the 2017 lineup. The first band announced for 2015 was Blind Guardian, and Iced Earth for 2016. Both were given headliner time slots. Anthrax will almost certainly be given a headline set. Will we see another big name in this first round? The first round of bands for 2015 had two headliners (Blind Guardian and Apocalyptica), and the same goes for 2016 as well (Iced Earth and Children of Bodom).
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Hoppy McGee » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:57 pm

Here is a history of "headliners" over the years from what I can gather. Headliners are any band that receives a set length longer than 60 minutes.

2011
90 min. - Blind Guardian, Saxon
75 min. - Amon Amarth, Testament

2012
90 min. - Nightwish, Venom
75 min. - Children of Bodom

2013
75 min. - Helloween, Rage & Lingua Mortis Orchestra

2014
75 min. - Fear Factory, Symphony X

2015
75 min. - Apocalyptica, Blind Guardian, Venom

2016
75 min. - Cradle of Filth, Children of Bodom, Iced Earth

I think Anthrax is still the only headliner announced so far so I'm assuming we will probably get two more "biggish" names. Not sure if some would make an argument for Kamelot being a headliner....but they've been on the cruise before and only received hour long sets.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by metalmaciejmetal » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:10 pm

If the highly speculated Amon Amarth is to play, I would imagine they get the other headlining slot along with Anthrax
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by spooky » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:35 pm

75 minutes of kamelot would be wonderful to me!
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by klons » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:07 pm

spooky wrote:75 minutes of kamelot would be wonderful to me!


That sounds like fancy dinner time to me. :lol:
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Pellaz » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:39 pm

If Andy is sitting on an Amon Amarth announcement, he really needs to announce them right before public sales start. And yeah, I'd guess they'd get 75 minutes...at least.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Jotunheimr » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:50 pm

Pellaz wrote:If Andy is sitting on an Amon Amarth announcement, he really needs to announce them right before public sales start. And yeah, I'd guess they'd get 75 minutes...at least.


I don't think Andy's overworked employees would be prepared for the sheer number of bookings if this were to happen.
2015: 6511
2016: 7455
2018: Sooooooon

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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Phoenix » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:04 pm

Jotunheimr wrote:
Pellaz wrote:If Andy is sitting on an Amon Amarth announcement, he really needs to announce them right before public sales start. And yeah, I'd guess they'd get 75 minutes...at least.


I don't think Andy's overworked employees would be prepared for the sheer number of bookings if this were to happen.


They already aren't. I got added to a cabin over twelve hours ago and he still hasn't let me give him my money yet.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by cowboy71 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:54 pm

Here is my take based on historical evidence for those bands that have been on before, and my own judgement for the first-timers.

75 MINUTES
Anthrax

60 MINUTES
Orphaned Land
Suffocation
Kamelot
Amorphis
Therion
Annihilator
Grave Digger
Nile
Haggard
Arch Enemy
Devildriver
Kalmah

45 MINUTES
Death Angel (they got 60 minutes in 2011 but only 45 in 2014)
Equilibrium
Amaranthe
Stuck Mojo
Powerglove
Dying Fetus
Cruachan
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by cowboy71 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:58 pm

For historical comparison, 2016 we had 3 bands with 75 minute sets, 17 with 60 minute sets, and 40 with 45 minute sets.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by macamatic » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:19 am

cowboy71 wrote:Death Angel (they got 60 minutes in 2011 but only 45 in 2014)


According to the schedule, they actually had one hour set and one 45min set in 2014.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Hoppy McGee » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:33 am

cowboy71 wrote:Here is my take based on historical evidence for those bands that have been on before, and my own judgement for the first-timers.

75 MINUTES
Anthrax

60 MINUTES
Orphaned Land
Suffocation
Kamelot
Amorphis
Therion
Annihilator
Grave Digger
Nile
Haggard
Arch Enemy
Devildriver
Kalmah

45 MINUTES
Death Angel (they got 60 minutes in 2011 but only 45 in 2014)
Equilibrium
Amaranthe
Stuck Mojo
Powerglove
Dying Fetus
Cruachan


Looking at this through the lens of last year I'm not sure if some of those bands will receive 60 minute sets. Last year we had Vader (Death metal legends) and Insomnium (one of the most highly requested bands) only receive 45 minute sets....but then again....last years lineup was ridiculously deep.

I think it's too early to call on some of these bands until we see how the whole lineup shapes up. But I'm not so sure Kalmah and Nile will end up with hour long sets. If we were to insert any of these 60 minute bands into last years lineup I only see maybe five or six of them actually getting hour long sets.

Last year Delain only received 45 minute sets....I place Amaranthe on a similar level so I see the logic in thinking they might get 45 minute sets. But Amaranthe is doing headline North American tours of mid-sized club venues, whereas Delain usually only comes around as a supporting/opening band. Amaranthe may wind up getting hour long sets.

And I hope you are wrong about Death Angel. Considering the depth (or lack thereof) in this years lineup so far... I'd be shocked if they didn't get hour long sets.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Jotunheimr » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:56 pm

Let's swap Amaranthe and Kalmah. Judging by Amaranthe's placement on posters for other fests, they will easily get 60 minutes. Kalmah is lesser known than Insomnium who played 45 minute sets last year, so Kalmah probably will as well.
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2016: 7455
2018: Sooooooon

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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by cowboy71 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:59 pm

UPDATED

Testament got 75 minutes in 2011 - no reason to see why they won't in 2017. Unleashed, Serenity, Orden Ogan all surely 45 minute setters.

Here is my take based on historical evidence for those bands that have been on before, and my own judgement for the first-timers.

75 MINUTES
Anthrax
Testament

60 MINUTES
Orphaned Land
Suffocation
Kamelot
Amorphis
Therion
Annihilator
Grave Digger
Nile
Haggard
Arch Enemy
Devildriver
Uli Jon Roth
Amaranthe

45 MINUTES
Death Angel (they got 60 minutes in 2011 but one 45min and one 60min in 2014)
Equilibrium
Kalmah
Stuck Mojo
Powerglove
Dying Fetus
Cruachan
Omnium Gatherum
Draconian
Saltatio Mortis
Xandria
Revocation
Stam1na
Moonsorrow
Unleashed
Serenity
Orden Ogan
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Sgt. B » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:54 pm

I'd think Gojira will join Anthrax & Testament as a member of the 75 Minutes group.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Mark » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:29 pm

Sgt. B wrote:I'd think Gojira will join Anthrax & Testament as a member of the 75 Minutes group.


Don't think they are big enough for that - we have several "bigger" (more Spotify listeners) names onbroad already.
I'm still rather confident that Amon Amarth will be the third headliner :viking:
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by cowboy71 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Mark wrote:
Sgt. B wrote:I'd think Gojira will join Anthrax & Testament as a member of the 75 Minutes group.


Don't think they are big enough for that - we have several "bigger" (more Spotify listeners) names onbroad already.
I'm still rather confident that Amon Amarth will be the third headliner :viking:

I'd agree - a definite 60 minute set band, doubtful of headliner status. Numerous other bands already on the lineup have more facebook likes, more last.fm listeners, etc as well.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by metalmaciejmetal » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:58 am

cowboy71 wrote:
Mark wrote:
Sgt. B wrote:I'd think Gojira will join Anthrax & Testament as a member of the 75 Minutes group.


Don't think they are big enough for that - we have several "bigger" (more Spotify listeners) names onbroad already.
I'm still rather confident that Amon Amarth will be the third headliner :viking:

I'd agree - a definite 60 minute set band, doubtful of headliner status. Numerous other bands already on the lineup have more facebook likes, more last.fm listeners, etc as well.


Agreed, no way Gojira would be getting the top slot. I would suggest Arch Enemy will get the 75 minute slot based on what I've seen at Wacken last week. They had an impressive level of stage production. At least here in North America I would think they are about at par with Children Of Bodom in popularity. For the record, Arch Enemy is a 0 setter for me.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Downvod » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:11 pm

Hard to say the rationale on the headline sets. Iced Earth and Cradle of Filth are certainly recognizable names, but both of them have seen a decline in popularity over the last 10 years or so. They are both playing to pretty small crowds these days. However, they both got 75 minutes last year. On the other hand, Gojira hasn't been around as long, but their popularity is certainly on the rise and there is a lot of buzz around the band. They are drawing bigger crowds now than either of the previously mentioned bands.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Phoenix » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:17 pm

I don't think Arch Enemy will be getting a headliner slot. The names we see headline are the really BIG, well known bands that you don't necessarily be a metalhead to have heard of. I don't put Arch Enemy in that camp, nor do I think Gojira is there either. Makes me less sure about Testament, maybe Anthrax is the only headliner we've had announced so far?

I'm also planting my flag in the Amon Amarth for Headliner camp. They were teased so hard.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Downvod » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:37 pm

Phoenix wrote:I don't think Arch Enemy will be getting a headliner slot. The names we see headline are the really BIG, well known bands that you don't necessarily be a metalhead to have heard of. I don't put Arch Enemy in that camp, nor do I think Gojira is there either. Makes me less sure about Testament, maybe Anthrax is the only headliner we've had announced so far?

I'm also planting my flag in the Amon Amarth for Headliner camp. They were teased so hard.


But Venom has gotten a headline spot. You really think they are more well known than Testament?
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Phoenix » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:46 pm

Downvod wrote:
But Venom has gotten a headline spot. You really think they are more well known than Testament?


I did say LESS sure :P
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by metalmaciejmetal » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:56 pm

Downvod wrote:
But Venom has gotten a headline spot. You really think they are more well known than Testament?


Interesting point. I probably should reconsider my Arch Enemy point. My speculation is based on what I've seen in the Toronto scene. Since 70k is a collection of 3000 of the most diehard metal from around the world, a different set of rules apply. If I'm not mistaken, didn't Therion get a 75 minute set in 2015? They don't draw in Toronto at all relative to an Arch enemy or even devil driver for that matter. Its anyone's guess. Anthrax seems like the only sure thing at this point.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by cowboy71 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:14 pm

Downvod wrote:Hard to say the rationale on the headline sets. Iced Earth and Cradle of Filth are certainly recognizable names, but both of them have seen a decline in popularity over the last 10 years or so. They are both playing to pretty small crowds these days. However, they both got 75 minutes last year. On the other hand, Gojira hasn't been around as long, but their popularity is certainly on the rise and there is a lot of buzz around the band. They are drawing bigger crowds now than either of the previously mentioned bands.


Jon told me after the 2011 cruise that iced earth wouldn't do it again as there was no money in it.

I reckon andy tempted him back by offering IE headline status.

Just like I reckon Unearth got a headline length set to get them to do the cruise at short notice.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Jotunheimr » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:38 pm

cowboy71 wrote:Jon told me after the 2011 cruise that iced earth wouldn't do it again as there was no money in it.
I reckon andy tempted him back by offering IE headline status.
Just like I reckon Unearth got a headline length set to get them to do the cruise at short notice.


Does headlining guarantee being paid more? Or does it mean playing longer for no extra pay? In that case, I think most bands would prefer 45 minute sets because it gives them more time to enjoy the boat. After all, this cruise is more a vacation than it is work for the bands involved.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by cowboy71 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:23 am

Jotunheimr wrote:
cowboy71 wrote:Jon told me after the 2011 cruise that iced earth wouldn't do it again as there was no money in it.
I reckon andy tempted him back by offering IE headline status.
Just like I reckon Unearth got a headline length set to get them to do the cruise at short notice.


Does headlining guarantee being paid more? Or does it mean playing longer for no extra pay? In that case, I think most bands would prefer 45 minute sets because it gives them more time to enjoy the boat. After all, this cruise is more a vacation than it is work for the bands involved.

I would think that they would definitely get paid more.

I also think that it is a bit of a prestige thing too - would feel good to be one of the headliners :)

Its not just about having a holiday. Its a great opportunity for publicity. The amount of coverage in the press, exposure to fans who may not normally check your band out but will because "they are one of the headliners", etc.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Downvod » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:27 am

cowboy71 wrote:
Jotunheimr wrote:
cowboy71 wrote:Jon told me after the 2011 cruise that iced earth wouldn't do it again as there was no money in it.
I reckon andy tempted him back by offering IE headline status.
Just like I reckon Unearth got a headline length set to get them to do the cruise at short notice.


Does headlining guarantee being paid more? Or does it mean playing longer for no extra pay? In that case, I think most bands would prefer 45 minute sets because it gives them more time to enjoy the boat. After all, this cruise is more a vacation than it is work for the bands involved.

I would think that they would definitely get paid more.

I also think that it is a bit of a prestige thing too - would feel good to be one of the headliners :)

Its not just about having a holiday. Its a great opportunity for publicity. The amount of coverage in the press, exposure to fans who may not normally check your band out but will because "they are one of the headliners", etc.


I get your point, but headliners on 70k aren't really given much more emphasis than the other bands. Most festivals will list them at the top of the billing with a larger logo, have them play last, and specifically announce them as a headliner. 70k just throws them in with the rest of the band list (alphabetically), and we decipher who is 'headlining' by looking at the running order 1 day before the cruise.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Phoenix » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:13 am

cowboy71 wrote:
Jon told me after the 2011 cruise that iced earth wouldn't do it again as there was no money in it.

I reckon andy tempted him back by offering IE headline status.

Just like I reckon Unearth got a headline length set to get them to do the cruise at short notice.


I wonder if Andy would offer Grave Digger a headlining spot to make up for them not getting to play their pool deck set in 2015? I remember he formally apologised to them for it on social media.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Downvod » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:29 am

Phoenix wrote:
cowboy71 wrote:
Jon told me after the 2011 cruise that iced earth wouldn't do it again as there was no money in it.

I reckon andy tempted him back by offering IE headline status.

Just like I reckon Unearth got a headline length set to get them to do the cruise at short notice.


I wonder if Andy would offer Grave Digger a headlining spot to make up for them not getting to play their pool deck set in 2015? I remember he formally apologised to them for it on social media.


Amorphis didn't get their pool deck set either that year, correct?
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Phoenix » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:03 am

Downvod wrote:
Amorphis didn't get their pool deck set either that year, correct?


Yeah, and someone else didn't either. Maybe Alestorm.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Godflesh » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:37 am

Phoenix wrote:
Downvod wrote:
Amorphis didn't get their pool deck set either that year, correct?


Yeah, and someone else didn't either. Maybe Alestorm.

Alestorm blew it because their guitarist "delivered a baby", remember?
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Phoenix » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:03 pm

Godflesh wrote:Alestorm blew it because their guitarist "delivered a baby", remember?


Riiiiight. I was so drunk I actually thought one of the guy's ladies was actually in labour when someone first told me :lol:
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by Mark » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:29 pm

Riiiiight. I was so drunk I actually thought one of the guy's ladies was actually in labour when someone first told me :lol:


Heh I remember that one. I totally believed them when they told that story.
Told it to a friend some hours later and he was just like "uhm, dude, are you drunk!?" Well apparently - I was :cheers:
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by stoverkill » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:33 pm

I can't remember a UMC cruise that didn't have some kind of alteration to the schedule at some point or another. Technical glitches, weather, issues finding passed out artists...... I never once found myself worrying about who was gonna get to play for how long. I have always been mostly concerned with "will they play at all?"

Last round Holy Moses got a 20 min pool deck set. :cry:
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by mooyagi » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:22 pm

stoverkill wrote:I can't remember a UMC cruise that didn't have some kind of alteration to the schedule at some point or another. Technical glitches, weather, issues finding passed out artists...... I never once found myself worrying about who was gonna get to play for how long. I have always been mostly concerned with "will they play at all?"

Last round Holy Moses got a 20 min pool deck set. :cry:


It's always fun to try and figure out how late each stage is running on the first day. :roll:
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by CFH » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:14 am

So, any updates regarding these speculations? I'm too lazy and/or not capable of pulling it of, but Mr. Statsman got them pretty damn close in 2016.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by AceHugger » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:17 am

Godflesh wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
Downvod wrote:
Amorphis didn't get their pool deck set either that year, correct?


Yeah, and someone else didn't either. Maybe Alestorm.

Alestorm blew it because their guitarist "delivered a baby", remember?



Wtf???
2017 - Deck 8 -... 8372 .

2018.....??????
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by cowboy71 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:09 am

UPDATED

Here is my take based on historical evidence for those bands that have been on before, and my own judgement for the first-timers.

Had to add from Demolition Hammer onwards to my initial listing. I think Marduk will get an hour (they got an hour in 2011) , and given their popularity I would think Scar Symmetry and Mors will also get 1 hour sets. The rest of the recent announcements, 45 minutes.

75 MINUTES
Anthrax
Testament

60 MINUTES
Orphaned Land
Suffocation
Kamelot
Amorphis
Therion
Annihilator
Grave Digger
Nile
Haggard
Arch Enemy
Devildriver
Uli Jon Roth
Amaranthe
Marduk
Scar Symmetry
Mors Principium Est

45 MINUTES
Death Angel (they got 60 minutes in 2011 but one 45min and one 60min in 2014)
Equilibrium
Kalmah
Stuck Mojo
Powerglove
Dying Fetus
Cruachan
Omnium Gatherum
Draconian
Saltatio Mortis
Xandria
Revocation
Stam1na
Moonsorrow
Unleashed
Serenity
Orden Ogan
Demolition Hammer
Vreid
Pain
Grave
Psycroptic
Avatarium
Misery Loves Co
Cattle Decapitation
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by cowboy71 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:13 am

Remembering 2016 we had 3 bands with 75 minute sets, 17 with 60 minutes, 40 with 45 minutes.

So if my above is correct we can expect one more band to be worth of 75 minute sets (Amon Amarth?), 1 worthy of 60 minutes and the rest 45 minutes.
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Re: 2017 Set Length Speculation

by General Zod » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:49 am

cowboy71 wrote:Remembering 2016 we had 3 bands with 75 minute sets, 17 with 60 minutes, 40 with 45 minutes.

So if my above is correct we can expect one more band to be worth of 75 minute sets (Amon Amarth?), 1 worthy of 60 minutes and the rest 45 minutes.

At this point, I would think the historical question that would be most telling is, how close to sailing has a headliner ever been announced? Much like everyone else, I have my fingers crossed for that Amon Amarth announcement. However, as the days pass, that just seems less and less realistic. As a promoter, you pay a band like Amon Amarth to drive ticket sales. But with the cruise setting sail in 35 days, what impact on ticket sales would they even have?
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