[MuzakMaker]

Halo Effect totally are getting 45 minutes. As mentioned above they literally do not have 60 minutes of material

I mean andy could 'give' them 60 minutes but they just don't USE all of them...... Would be a 'waste' though.

Not just considering their new material, wouldn't there be some potential for some older In Flames stuff as well? I think they could easily fill a great 60 minute set.

They've been pretty firm on the "we only play The Halo Effect material". Plus, they've already been breaking out new material on this current NA run.

[Mr.Kito]

Can someone outside of NA answer me something?

It's looking like Angara is getting at least 75 minutes (if not more because NW threw that whole thing out last year) but are they actually headline "worthy" elsewhere in the world?

Last time they hit the states it was just a bunch of poorly attended shows. Even the big markets were virtually empty.

If they hit the US again, I would be shocked if they weren't direct support (or even an opener if the promoter doesn't go the cheaper route with a US or Canadian based opener)

In South America they are headline worthy... actually they're the biggest Brazilian Metal band alongside with Sepultura in Brazil... but i don't have a clue about them on other places in the world

[MuzakMaker]

Can someone outside of NA answer me something?

It's looking like Angara is getting at least 75 minutes (if not more because NW threw that whole thing out last year) but are they actually headline "worthy" elsewhere in the world?

Last time they hit the states it was just a bunch of poorly attended shows. Even the big markets were virtually empty.

If they hit the US again, I would be shocked if they weren't direct support (or even an opener if the promoter doesn't go the cheaper route with a US or Canadian based opener)

In South America they are headline worthy... actually they're the biggest Brazilian Metal band alongside with Sepultura in Brazil... but i don't have a clue about them on other places in the world

I mean obviously they're still big in Brazil (even without Andre or Kiko) . Have you noticed any decrease in their demand? They're still cited as heavily influential and those early albums still stream well here in the states but they just can't move tickets anymore

[creptorstatus]

Hmm.. if Sodom is playing Agent Orange in full for one set - that album is only 40min. I'd say they are probably in the 45 min setter category?

[cowboy71]

Hmm.. if Sodom is playing Agent Orange in full for one set - that album is only 40min. I'd say they are probably in the 45 min setter category?

Nah they are 60 minutes guaranteed - they'll probably throw another couple of classics into the Agent Orange set as 'encores'.

They've been a 60 minute setter all 3 previous 70ks they've been on (and Barge To Hell) so I don't see that changing :)

[Mr.Kito]

Can someone outside of NA answer me something?

It's looking like Angara is getting at least 75 minutes (if not more because NW threw that whole thing out last year) but are they actually headline "worthy" elsewhere in the world?

Last time they hit the states it was just a bunch of poorly attended shows. Even the big markets were virtually empty.

If they hit the US again, I would be shocked if they weren't direct support (or even an opener if the promoter doesn't go the cheaper route with a US or Canadian based opener)

In South America they are headline worthy... actually they're the biggest Brazilian Metal band alongside with Sepultura in Brazil... but i don't have a clue about them on other places in the world

I mean obviously they're still big in Brazil (even without Andre or Kiko) . Have you noticed any decrease in their demand? They're still cited as heavily influential and those early albums still stream well here in the states but they just can't move tickets anymore

When I say they're big in Brazil, I dont mean only by their history, they're still putting up the biggest stand alone metal shows as a brazilian here in Brazil, no one play bigger shows here... even if they play few old classics...
They appear frequently in regular TV network shows, their News move the whole metal media etc...

Announcing them as the first band was probably a strategy to bring latin american fans

[toby]

Announcing them as the first band was probably a strategy to bring latin american fans

I think this is spot on. Andy's entire strategy so far seems geared to that. That interview he did where he said announcements were coming by 'end of the next month' was filmed in Colombia, I believe. We've got 3 bands already from Brazil.

[Danny24601]

Looks generally right to me, but I got a few thoughts.

80% chance that Angra gets 75 IMO. I know it's wild, but the first announcement has always been the longest set (right?) and there hasn't been any other really obvious headliners so far so my guess is they're a full headliner. It's weird, but so is Andy.

I think y'all are underestimating how big Lord of the Lost has gotten in the past few years, and not just from eurovision. Their last 4 lps charted top ten in Germany, and they were invited to do a full tour with Maiden in 2020. Putting The Nepo Age aside for the obvious reason, pretty much every band who recently toured with Maiden as direct support is headliner big on 70k.

They're also at 1.8 M monthly listeners on Spotify, which is by far the most of any band so far this year. Eyeballing it, that would make them the 3rd biggest on 2023 (behind Nightwish and on par with Dragonforce), and bigger than all the bands from 2015-2020 except for Apocalyptica, Testament, and Sabaton (so bigger than any bands from 2016, 2019, and 2020). Of course, Spotify monthly listeners is a fickle stat and Andy often downbills "meme"ey and upstart bands, but I'd give them like a 55% chance of 60 min, 25% chance of 75 min, and 20% chance of 45 min.

The Halo Effect does have an hour set right now, with the two non-album tracks they're playing plus flex time, and they may well have new material before 2024. I do understand them to be currently against playing In Flames material live, though that would change things. I'd still guess 45 but could be 60. Previous 70k headliner Unearth opened for them in the US, but honestly that more speaks to how much of a crapshoot 70k billing is.

The Epica snafu does suggest Andy has solid headliners in mind, as Epica are getting close to headliner big at this point with high fest billings and a coheadliner tour with previous headliner Apocalyptica. If Andy was worried about headliners they'd be an obvious one to promote, especially with them playing (ish) a 75 min album.

[slayergeek]

I think y'all are underestimating how big Lord of the Lost has gotten in the past few years, and not just from eurovision.

No disrespect to Lord Of The Lost, but they are ranking at 15 out of 16 in the must, might, won’t polling within the app, with only 40% of cruisers having them on their must list with only Warkings coming in lower at 38%

Now this will likely change as other bands come in, but they are unlikely to be near the top. The Halo Effect is currently knocking it out of the park at 78%

That being said this poll is VERY specific to our cruise and not the music scene in general.

[MuzakMaker]

I think y'all are underestimating how big Lord of the Lost has gotten in the past few years, and not just from eurovision.

No disrespect to Lord Of The Lost, but they are ranking at 15 out of 16 in the must, might, won’t polling within the app, with only 40% of cruisers having them on their must list with only Warkings coming in lower at 38%

Now this will likely change as other bands come in, but they are unlikely to be near the top. The Halo Effect is currently knocking it out of the park at 78%

That being said this poll is VERY specific to our cruise and not the music scene in general.

That and people love to say they don't like those types of bands but yet the sets are always well filled out with people having a great time

The app is just such a specific group of cruisers that while I do find the stats interesting, I can't say it means anything in regards to set lengths or how packed the sets will be.

I've got Lord of the Lost at a solid 60. Half because they're fairly big and coming off of Eurovision, half (from what I've gathered talking with some folks who know more than I do) they're shrewd enough to not say yes to 70K without that 60 minute set.

Warkings is going to be a 45 minute band because they're a gimmick band and Andy pretty much never gives them anything aside from 45 (Unless of course they're headline potential like Sabaton). Even with the weight of Napalm Events behind them.

[cowboy71]

That is our first, no doubt, 75min x 2.

Although you COULD argue that they are worth 90min x 2 like Nightwish this year.

[MuzakMaker]

That is our first, no doubt, 75min x 2.

Although you COULD argue that they are worth 90min x 2 like Nightwish this year.

Bold of you to underestimate my ability to doubt Andy.

Even with their rep, they're still a Power Metal band. Who knows, this could be a year where no band gets 2 75 minute sets and instead we see 5 or 6 bands get one 75 and one 60.

[cowboy71]

First 70k Blind Guardian got 2 x 90 minute sets.
2015 they got 2 x 75 minute sets (noting that NO band got 90min in 2015)

[MuzakMaker]

I would gladly take them as 2x90 minute sets (but a 18th slot announcement makes me iffy on that)

Of the bands thus far I do agree they're the strongest contender for best billing on the boat (in terms of set length, set time, and stages since Andy still likes to claim "equal billing" for all bands) but having such a weird first announcement is really throwing me off.

[Metalhead_80s]

So, I think it's pretty clear that Blind Guardian is the biggest band announced so far, possibly the big headliner this year.

They'll get 60-90 mins, depending on if we get anybody bigger.

[Metalhead_80s]

My Dying Bride easily getting 60-75 mins.

[DeadPoet]

70k set lengths could be tricky. In 2018, Alestorm only had 45 minutes (someone correct me if I'm getting mixed up). In 2019, Fleshgod Apocalypse only had 45 mins also. Both bands could have easily gotten 60 mins sets. In 2020, Moonsorrow had 1 set of 45 mins and another set of 75 mins (to play a whole album in its entirely). Some oddities can happen each year.

[MuzakMaker]

70k set lengths could be tricky. In 2018, Alestorm only had 45 minutes (someone correct me if I'm getting mixed up). In 2019, Fleshgod Apocalypse only had 45 mins also. Both bands could have easily gotten 60 mins sets. In 2020, Moonsorrow had 1 set of 45 mins and another set of 75 mins (to play a whole album in its entirely). Some oddities can happen each year.

Those are both very firmly 45 minute bands in the world of 70K. Andy has his tastes and both Fleshgod and the Racist pirates don't fall in to those tastes.

[MuzakMaker]

Alright, since we're at about the halfway point and probably at the start of the summer hiatus, here's what I got so far.
All bands based off of previous set times where applicable and newbies are based off of similar artists/any name recognition of members

Headliner (75 Minutes)
Angra
Blind Guardian (Might get a bump to 90 if we don't get a third headliner)

Supporting (60 Minutes)
Epica
Grave Digger
My Dying Bride
Nile
Omnium Gatherum (only played 45 minutes in the past but I've got fingers crossed this is the year they get the upgrade)
Sodom
The Halo Effect (Super group of previous Headline/Support bands and have added enough new THE material to their sets to fill up 60 minutes)
Unleashed

Opening (45 Minutes)
Aborted
Blood Red Throne
Crypta
Dalriada
Depressive Age
Draconian (might get a bump with that major line up shift news)
Equilibrium
Infected Rain
Iotunn
Legion of the Damned
Lord of the Lost (might get a bump from Eurovision)
Mystic Prophecy
Nanowar of Steel
Nervosa
Saor
Serenity
Thyrfing
Victory
Warkings

[cowboy71]

Muzakmaker, your thoughts pretty much match my own.

2023 we ended up with 15 bands at 60 minutes or more (1 x 90 (Nightwish), 1 x 75 (Kreator), and 13 x 60 minute)

This year I reckon we are at 10 (or 11 if Omnium gets a promotion to 60) with Kataklysm from the announcements made since your post the only band I think that will be getting 60.

Interestingly, from around the same point last year we had a string of 45 minute bands (from announcement 35, Elvenking to announcement 49 Eshtadur) with 4 60s in the final 10 (Belphegor, Dark Tranquillity, Dragonforce and Hypocrisy).

So think we are tracking on target

[DeadPoet]

I think we can put Scar Symmetry pretty safely in the 45 mins sets.

[DeadPoet]

So now that we are in the last blitz before 70k, what do you all think about the "headliners" for this year? Blind Guardian is a safe bet. Angra being the first announcement and also filming a live DVD makes them pretty likely too. Will we go with 2 headliners, with one of them being 90 minutes like last year? Or only 2 bands at 75 mins each? Or a possible 3rd headliner announced in the last batch? Not sure how often 75mins bands have been announced in the last few days before departure. But last year, we had Dragonforce a week before leaving who had the potential to play a 75 mins set. I wonder what we will end up with.

Either way, I'm excited for a lot of the sets that we will see on board!!

[MuzakMaker]

Headliner (75 Minutes)
Angra
Blind Guardian (Might get a bump to 90 if we don't get a third headliner)

Supporting (60 Minutes)
Epica
Grave Digger
My Dying Bride
Nile
Omnium Gatherum (only played 45 minutes in the past but I've got fingers crossed this is the year they get the upgrade)
Sodom
The Halo Effect (Super group of previous Headline/Support bands and have added enough new THE material to their sets to fill up 60 minutes)
Unleashed

Opening (45 Minutes)
Aborted
Blood Red Throne
Crypta
Dalriada
Depressive Age
Draconian (might get a bump with that major line up shift news)
Equilibrium
Infected Rain
Iotunn
Legion of the Damned
Lord of the Lost (might get a bump from Eurovision)
Mystic Prophecy
Nanowar of Steel
Nervosa
Saor
Serenity
Thyrfing
Victory
Warkings

Might as well kill the boredom of the drought by filling the few bands that weren't announced when I did this
60 Minutes
Kataklysm

45 Minutes
Dynazty
Fleshgod Apocalypse (this one bums me out but they've always been 45)
Heidevolk
Marduk
Scar Symmetry
Tygers of Pan Tang
Wind Rose

Which puts us at 11 60 Minute or more bands (assuming OG gets the bump, we could only be at 10). I don't suspect more than 5 additional bands that fit there. If Avatarium and Katatonia are correct predictions/leaks, Avatarium is a definite 45, Katatonia played 60 last time they were on and I'd feel safe with them getting 60 again. (Coincedentally, they were bands 41 and 39 respectively last time they were on so they'd still be back half announcements)

[DeadPoet]

I think Kataklysm is a higher chance to be 60 mins compared to the other 45 mins bands, especially that they are playing 2 albums in their entirety. 60 mins would give them the chance to add in a few extra songs not on those albums.

[Danny24601]

Random and excessive thoughts on set lengths:

I love Omnium (Andy willing I'll have seen them 11 times total by this spring), but I'd be (happily) surprised if they got the bump. They're not 60m big and they're too new to get that legacy act favoritism from Andy. I know Insomnium got the bump last year finally, but they're solidly much bigger. OG did do their first (i think?) headline NA tour post pandemic though.

Angra feels like a real wild card for me. On paper a 60m band, but first announcement almost guarantees 75 to me, but I suppose with the vid it could get split with a 75 or even 90 min pool deck set for the vid and 60m in the theater. The post indicated that they're playing their (58 min) new album for the video so a 60 min set is almost right out as the album would barely fit with no time to banter, and even a 75 min set would leave little time for classic hits to close the film. Of course, they could film both sets and supplement a bare-bones new lp set video with a full hits set video as well. Tldr: almost anything could happen to Angra really.

Draconian seem eligible for a bump in terms of size, age, and influence. Plus personal bias.

I'd be surprised if Halo Effect gets 60, they're big enough but only have one album, they could technically barely fill a single 60 min set with originals but that doesn't really cry out to give them two 60 min sets. Has Andy ever given a band with only one lp more than 45?

I guess Tygers could get 60 via being olde and influential, even if they're not that big.

I'd pencil in Lord of the Lost for 60m for sure, I'd be quite surprised if they got 45. It's not just eurovision, they're a pretty big band with a bunch of high charting albums in Germany and it's not like we're heavy on obvious 60m's.

I'd guess/hope that Guardian gets 90 at this point, given the lack of a clear 3rd (or even 2nd) headliner.

Wind rose are technically pretty big with the highest monthly listeners of any band here on spotify. Andy tends to downbill newer bands and theme bands but if he's low on 60ms he could bump them with no shame.

I'd bet my liver that Depressive Age gets 75 min and Warkings and Serenity end up with sets booked at the same time.

[MuzakMaker]

I think Kataklysm is a higher chance to be 60 mins compared to the other 45 mins bands, especially that they are playing 2 albums in their entirety. 60 mins would give them the chance to add in a few extra songs not on those albums.

Kataklysm has also already been a 60 minute band, the only downgrade I can think of was Kamelot but they also stepped up as a replacement headliner in 2017 and then came back as a non-headliner for 60

[MuzakMaker]

Random and excessive thoughts on set lengths:

I love Omnium.
Angra
Halo Effect
Tygers
Lord of the Lost for 60m
Guardian gets 90
Wind rose
I'd bet my liver that Depressive Age gets 75 min and Warkings and Serenity end up with sets booked at the same time.

Omnium I'll admit I put them as a hope and prayer considering at that time we didn't a lot of clear 60s. So I gave them the bump. If we don't get any more 60s, it'd be a crime to not do it

Angra, Going back to 2015, the first band is always the headliner. Plus they're getting a pool deck DVD. I could see them even getting a bump to a 90 minute slot on the pool deck just to account for that (still maybe only playing 75)

The Halo Effect has the material for a full 60 minute set, They've already been playing stuff from the second album live

Tygers. I'd be shocked if a band met with the loudest choir of "WHO?"'s gets a 60 minute set unless Andy is a huge fan.

Lords of the Lost. I'll admit I'm torn on them. They've got the Eurovision cred and a large following, but they're also not a band in Andy's wheel house and those bands ALWAYS get 45 unless they negotiated before signing for it and I don't know if Andy would want them enough to accept that unless the rest of the line up is equally as light on the 60's

Guardian, Hell, give them 120 minutes. I'll be there

Wind Rose. It's a power metal band with a gimmick. If Andy could give them a 20 minute set he would.

Depressive Age getting 75 minutes is probably the most unbelievable thing in this thread. Andy didn't even give Destruction 60 minutes until their 4th boat. Depressive Age is getting 45 minutes but probably a pool deck set. Warkings and Serenity at the same time as DA is definitely believable and that works for me because I'd rather see them instead

[Godflesh]

Since we’re being asked to guess, allow me.
We usually get at least 15 60mn+ bands (14 in 2023 courtesy of NIGHTWISH), so I agree with MusakMaker and cowboy71, we only have 4-5 more to announce.
I *think* the latest 75mner announced was KREATOR (in 2018?) on October 19th or something, so I doubt we get one of those.
I’d say one 90mn slot for ANGRA (for the DVD), and two 75mn for BLIND GUARDIAN.
Also, we already know of two other solid 60mn bands. Allegedly.
That leaves room for only 3 other 60mners max. KATATONIA plus 2?

[Danny24601]

I guess Epica is solidly eligible for 75 min at this point in terms of their size and legacy, I know they mentioned in a comment they were booked for 60 but that was a while ago and the schedule could change if Andy can't find enough big bands.

Also I should perhap clarify, my last comment was jest, Depressive Age are the surest 45 min band we got and Serenity and Warkings definitely can't be booked together as they've got the same singer.

[creptorstatus]

Also, we already know of two other solid 60mn bands. Allegedly.

Care to share the allegedlys?

[Godflesh]

Also, we already know of two other solid 60mn bands. Allegedly.

Care to share the allegedlys?

A Northern American band that starts with A, a former European band that starts with N.

[aleyeahed]

Andy ain't Voldemort (ALLEGEDLY!), say their names!

ANNIHILATOR and NAPALM DEATH

(allegedly)

[MuzakMaker]

I *think* the latest 75mner announced was KREATOR (in 2018?) on October 19th or something, so I doubt we get one of those.
I’d say one 90mn slot for ANGRA (for the DVD), and two 75mn for BLIND GUARDIAN.

Sabaton was actually announced later than Kreator (October 10th vs July 11th, 121 & 205 days before sailing respectively.

The latest a 75+ band has been announced date wise is Venom for 2012's boat with a December 9th announcement. Which is also the latest in terms of days before sailing with 45 days before sailing (Coincedentally, their 2015 announcement holds the number two spot on Nov 25th 58 days before sailing.

It's very possible that like last year we are looking at no third headliner just like last year. Which would make sense if one or both of Angra get the bump to 90 minute sets. And only Power metal headliners would match with Andy's pendulum of "FUCK POWER METAL" and "MAKE THIS THE BEST FEST WITH POWER METAL IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE"

If we have a secret third headliner in this already announced batch my guesses would be
Epica - Mark has said they're not even doing the full album for the album set which makes me feel like it's not likely but one could hope especially us US folk who only got a tease of Epica when they toured with Sabaton
Sodom - On a downswing in terms of popularity as of late but they've got the legacy and the name recognition
My Dying Bride - My dark horse candidate. They'd really contrast with BG and Angra plus gauging reactions online, I'd say they were the biggest announcement of the 60s aside from The Halo Effect (but they've said they only want to play THE material so that really limits their ability to play a full 75 minute set)

[last_candle]

making it to the Eurovision Song Contest isn't a success by itself
LotL were the worst band in the contest and the result showed it

Blind Guardian are the only true headliner so far - Epica and Angra will certainly get a long set and/or a prominent timeslot; and The Halo Effect won't be the breakfast-band
will Angra have to play twice the same stage?

[MuzakMaker]

making it to the Eurovision Song Contest isn't a success by itself
LotL were the worst band in the contest and the result showed it

Blind Guardian are the only true headliner so far - Epica and Angra will certainly get a long set and/or a prominent timeslot; and The Halo Effect won't be the breakfast-band
will Angra have to play twice the same stage?

Eurovision ups the marketability of a band though, hence my belief that I could see them not taking a low paying cruise notorious for a community full of gatekeepers and elitists (Not saying we are or aren't, I'm saying that's the image the fest puts out). If we're doing purely Andy's normal modus operandi, they're a 45 minute band easily. But without that back 40% we're making a ton of assumptions. Right now, they're a 60 minute band but one of the most likely to get slotted down to 45 when we have the rest of the lineup

Technically NO ONE is a headliner but Angra is almost assuredly a 75 minute band given they were the first announcement and they're getting a DVD filmed on the pool deck. The phrasing in the video and announcement lead me to believe they only get the one and the other would be in the theater.

Unless Epica and Andy re-negotiated since (which is doubtful since Andy's gone completely radio silent) they're a 60 minute band as confirmed by the band itself.

[Metaltrout]

I could see them not taking a low paying cruise notorious for a community full of gatekeepers and elitists (Not saying we are or aren't, I'm saying that's the image the fest puts out).

The absolute last thing it is known for is
musical elitism or gatekeeping. Maybe maybe 10ish percent of bands on the cruise would even fit into that space in any given year.

[MuzakMaker]

I could see them not taking a low paying cruise notorious for a community full of gatekeepers and elitists (Not saying we are or aren't, I'm saying that's the image the fest puts out).

The absolute last thing it is known for is
musical elitism or gatekeeping. Maybe maybe 10ish percent of bands on the cruise would even fit into that space in any given year.

Not the bands. The fest attendees

[Metaltrout]

I could see them not taking a low paying cruise notorious for a community full of gatekeepers and elitists (Not saying we are or aren't, I'm saying that's the image the fest puts out).

The absolute last thing it is known for is
musical elitism or gatekeeping. Maybe maybe 10ish percent of bands on the cruise would even fit into that space in any given year.

Not the bands. The fest attendees

Yes that's what I mean. The gatekeeping elitist crew have zero interest in a fest that routinely books bands like lord of the lost, infected rain wind rose ect while giving them so little in return. Which bands on ship do you think of as gatekeeper approved? There may be 3 or 4.

[MuzakMaker]

The absolute last thing it is known for is
musical elitism or gatekeeping. Maybe maybe 10ish percent of bands on the cruise would even fit into that space in any given year.

Not the bands. The fest attendees

Yes that's what I mean. The gatekeeping elitist crew have zero interest in a fest that routinely books bands like lord of the lost, infected rain wind rose ect while giving them so little in return. Which bands on ship do you think of as gatekeeper approved? There may be 3 or 4.

Literally gatekeeping/elitist behaviour right here.

I'm not saying anyone here or on the boat is in my comments. Just that it's the public perception and it's statements exactly like that the perpetuate the stereotype

[DeadPoet]

We could still be getting 60mins bands this late into the announcements. Just looking at last year's announcements, in the last 10 bands which were announced like the week before departure (maybe 10 days?), we had Dragonforce, Dark Tranquility, Belphegor and Hypocrisy. Not sure if I missed any other bands, but all of these bands got 60mins in 2023. So I still have hopes up that we will get some relatively big bands (big in boat terms, not Maiden/Metallica big).

I suspect that it's a matter of time until we get a Leaves' Eyes announcement? We seem to be alternating between them and Atrocity every year. Although Leaves' Eyes would count as a 45min band I think.