[cowboy71]

I think we need a space to air our thoughts, desires etc about perceived shortfalls of 70K. CONSTRUCTIVELY :)

I'll start :)

Transparency and honesty. That would be a great start. Is there some kind of issue going on in the background? Lack of bands? Supporting infrastructure? Tell us. We won't bite.

Instead we get almost daily "WHO DO YOU WANT TO SEE ON 70K?" posts on facebook. Not achieving anything other than pissing people off.

[PotatoPotahto]

Is it a requirement that the criticism be constructive?

Wacken 2023 - Bands announced, tickets on sale and sold out already - Takes place in AUGUST 2023. That's 7 months after 70k. They have their shit together.

Metaldays 2023. Bands announced. Personally don't know about their current ticket situation lol. Takes place in JULY. 6 months after 70k.

Graspop. Bands. Tickets. June.
NovaRock. Tickets but no bands. June.
Alcatraz. Tickets but no bands. August.
Brutal Assault.
Masters of Rock.
Copenhell.
John Smith.
Hellfest.
Summer Breeze.

And that's just Europe.

USA has Aftershock, Mad With Power, MDF, Full Terror Assault, ProgPower.

Andy can only rely on "But it's a vacation too!" for so long. It might as well be October. That's 5 months to sailing and not only do we not have bands, we don't have shit. No cabin prices, no sales dates, not a single useful thing. Not to mention the payment plan cutoff date is in 3 weeks exactly. How can you cut off the payment option that makes this thing accessible to many of your fans when literally none of them know how much the full amount is going to fucking cost.

It's gotten to the point the "Who do you want to see" posts and "remember how much fun it is?" posts are just starting to piss me off.

I'm not excited anymore. I'm not even going. If I had more notice it might have been possible, but Andy's refusal to do things properly has me out for 2023, and I know I'm not the only one.

Yes, Andy, you read that right:
It is YOUR actions that are making your "sure thing" customers give up on YOU. Not the cruise. YOU. Figure it out.

[rocking apple]

It's so bad to say us nothing !!!
Nothing is nothing...
This is not good

[cowboy71]

The lack of cabin prices is frustrating - while it is not yet the closest to sailing date we've got without knowing prices (emphasis on the YET), it is now the deepest into the calendar year we've ever gone without knowing how much it is going to cost us.

And this delay is costing EVERY. INTERNATIONAL. CRUISER. ACTUAL. MONEY.

The exchange rates globally are diving against the US. The Aussie Dollar. The Euro. The UK Pound. All have dropped over 10% over the last few months.

[alex_canada]

It's been this way for years. Social media has been vocal for years. Clearly it makes enough money to not warrant a change in announcement format. So anybody who doesn't like the format would benefit from detaching themselves from the lead up. Posting every day how you're not going on only stresses yourself out. Someone mentioned metaldays in this thread...I was there this year and it was terribly run. Unexplained charges, price discrepancies, bad environment, town-altering traffic jams and lineups, etc. 70k runs well. They announce shit when they're ready. And this all comes from someone who is also irritated, has been on every cruise, but wonders why people expect this to change. Just go about your life.

[Mr.Kito]

Is it a requirement that the criticism be constructive?

Wacken 2023 - Bands announced, tickets on sale and sold out already - Takes place in AUGUST 2023. That's 7 months after 70k. They have their shit together.

Metaldays 2023. Bands announced. Personally don't know about their current ticket situation lol. Takes place in JULY. 6 months after 70k.

Graspop. Bands. Tickets. June.
NovaRock. Tickets but no bands. June.
Alcatraz. Tickets but no bands. August.
Brutal Assault.
Masters of Rock.
Copenhell.
John Smith.
Hellfest.
Summer Breeze.

And that's just Europe.

USA has Aftershock, Mad With Power, MDF, Full Terror Assault, ProgPower.

Andy can only rely on "But it's a vacation too!" for so long. It might as well be October. That's 5 months to sailing and not only do we not have bands, we don't have shit. No cabin prices, no sales dates, not a single useful thing. Not to mention the payment plan cutoff date is in 3 weeks exactly. How can you cut off the payment option that makes this thing accessible to many of your fans when literally none of them know how much the full amount is going to fucking cost.

It's gotten to the point the "Who do you want to see" posts and "remember how much fun it is?" posts are just starting to piss me off.

I'm not excited anymore. I'm not even going. If I had more notice it might have been possible, but Andy's refusal to do things properly has me out for 2023, and I know I'm not the only one.

Yes, Andy, you read that right:
It is YOUR actions that are making your "sure thing" customers give up on YOU. Not the cruise. YOU. Figure it out.

We could add Full Metal Cruise which is a cruise, just like 70k, bands, sold out, in september 2023, with an additional back to back cruise with bands also announced and with many cabin categories already sold out too.

To give us what we want is not hard: sales date, prices... a way to plan ahead.

[cegr80]

Each one is entitled to their opinion in the matter. I agree with everyone's opinion so far, meaning I am also restless due to lack of information but at the same time trying to keep it cool because I love this boat so much.

It all comes down to transparency. Andy does not like to communicate things until he is ready. He's been like this for years and I find it hard to believe he's gonna change that. I'm not excusing him, in fact we could all appreciate some honesty now whatever the issues are.

Let's try to get through this together, sailors. Tough times indeed but we shall prevail

[toby]

Each one is entitled to their opinion in the matter. I agree with everyone's opinion so far, meaning I am also restless due to lack of information but at the same time trying to keep it cool because I love this boat so much.

It all comes down to transparency. Andy does not like to communicate things until he is ready. He's been like this for years and I find it hard to believe he's gonna change that. I'm not excusing him, in fact we could all appreciate some honesty now whatever the issues are.

Let's try to get through this together, sailors. Tough times indeed but we shall prevail

That's basically where I'm at, but I'm also US-based in a state where it's stupidly easy for me to get back and forth to FLL/MIA. I've already got flights and before and after hotel stays booked. If 2023 doesn't happen, I'll just cancel and get my refunds/credits.

I'd like to see a bit more transparency from Skipper, but don't see him changing his methods.

My only real constructive criticism is probably not doable with the way it's done now. I think MORC had one of the best ways of doing things. They have a contract with a company that runs the merch table. That company works with the bands and lists nearly ALL of the items on a website (definitely all the MORC specific ones). You can even get the MORC-specific stuff shipped to you BEFORE the cruise, so you can wear it while boarding if you're inclined. Some other years they've done pre-orders where you could pick up when you boarded in a separate area and didn't even need to go to the merch stand/room. I realize that's not how 70K does it since RC is involved for theirs, but that's literally the only thing I miss about MORC (other than some of the people).

[PotatoPotahto]

It's been this way for years.

Bullshit.

My first cruise was 2016. Bands were announced in May and booking codes were sent to veterans when there was 224 days to go. That's over 3 months ago at this point.

Hell 2015 bands and codes were announced in mid MARCH.

2017 - Bands on July 7. Booking codes sent to gold survivors July 19th.

2018 - Booking codes sent July 7th. Bands started July 3rd.

I'm not gonna go on, because 19/20 were obviously not the best. But this isn't "how it's always been." It's new and it's bullshit.

[alex_canada]

It's been this way for years.

Bullshit.

My first cruise was 2016. Bands were announced in May and booking codes were sent to veterans when there was 224 days to go. That's over 3 months ago at this point.

Hell 2015 bands and codes were announced in mid MARCH.

2017 - Bands on July 7. Booking codes sent to gold survivors July 19th.

2018 - Booking codes sent July 7th. Bands started July 3rd.

I'm not gonna go on, because 19/20 were obviously not the best. But this isn't "how it's always been." It's new and it's bullshit.

A glance at the website says dates were announced in May. Yes, the economy has probably worsened since then. But the hard truth is, people who will go through the lineup with a fine toothed comb aren't the target audience here, nor are the people whose attendence is contingent on a few hundred bucks here and there for unknown cabin prices. Its people who enjoy the experience and are interested in a reliable cross section of bands in the Caribbean. Stressing yourself over this benefits nobody.

I have a place booked in Miami, if I don't end up going I'll cancel it for a full refund. It's hardly the end of the world.

Even year 1 had some bands announced within a week of sailing IIRC

[Mr.Kito]

It's been this way for years.

Bullshit.

My first cruise was 2016. Bands were announced in May and booking codes were sent to veterans when there was 224 days to go. That's over 3 months ago at this point.

Hell 2015 bands and codes were announced in mid MARCH.

2017 - Bands on July 7. Booking codes sent to gold survivors July 19th.

2018 - Booking codes sent July 7th. Bands started July 3rd.

I'm not gonna go on, because 19/20 were obviously not the best. But this isn't "how it's always been." It's new and it's bullshit.

Things are getting worse every year instead of getting better, and I was used to it.
But I really expected things to run better this time.

Some scheduled dates for lineup to be announced, sales to start and prices to be announced and tranparency with the cruisers would make the pre cruise anxiety experience 10x better. And I really, REALLY, think its not too much to ask.

[Yippee38]

I have friends who have done the cruise at least once, who will never do the cruise again because of the late announcements. They feel that it shows a lack of respect for the potential cruisers.

[cowboy71]

And if liquidity (ready access to funds for ship deposit, bands etc) is/has been an issue - why not open sales early but with a "Line-up Guarantee" like Shiprocked do?

Cancellation Policy
Line-up Guarantee: All deposits and payments, including waitlist reservations, made prior to our initial artist lineup announcement are refundable (less a $75 per person administrative fee) for up to 14-days only, following the date of our initial artist lineup.

I would be ABSOLUTELY happy to lock in my booking early if I had the option to pull out if say the first 10 bands sucked.

Shiprocked opened booking up April 5, with the first bands announced May 19th. If 70K did similar it would be a win-win. If say bookings opened 6 weeks ago and I put my money down, I would have paid $1,000 Australian less for a cabin, and Skipper would have $6k of my money in his hot little hands.

[Mr.Kito]

I have friends who have done the cruise at least once, who will never do the cruise again because of the late announcements. They feel that it shows a lack of respect for the potential cruisers.

I had a 6 people party with 4 potential new cruisers ready to go this time. These 4 new cruisers gave up in July for the late announcements and the late news.
The way UMC is handling things is literally preventing them to sell cabins to new people.

[Pellaz]

I have friends who have done the cruise at least once, who will never do the cruise again because of the late announcements. They feel that it shows a lack of respect for the potential cruisers.

I had a 6 people party with 4 potential new cruisers ready to go this time. These 4 new cruisers gave up in July for the late announcements and the late news.
The way UMC is handling things is literally preventing them to sell cabins to new people.

Yep. I know of 3 people who were seriously interested in booking with me. Now, it's down to one.

I'm still hanging on...at least for now.

[Godflesh]

And if liquidity (ready access to funds for ship deposit, bands etc) is/has been an issue - why not open sales early but with a "Line-up Guarantee" like Shiprocked do?

Cancellation Policy
Line-up Guarantee: All deposits and payments, including waitlist reservations, made prior to our initial artist lineup announcement are refundable (less a $75 per person administrative fee) for up to 14-days only, following the date of our initial artist lineup.

I would be ABSOLUTELY happy to lock in my booking early if I had the option to pull out if say the first 10 bands sucked.

Shiprocked opened booking up April 5, with the first bands announced May 19th. If 70K did similar it would be a win-win. If say bookings opened 6 weeks ago and I put my money down, I would have paid $1,000 Australian less for a cabin, and Skipper would have $6k of my money in his hot little hands.

This. Announce the lineup in October, but open sales in May when you announce the dates, which means you have a boat.
Unless of course you’re afraid you might have to cancel…
Then why announce dates at all?

Announcing the dates is a blatant attempt to “lock in” your customers, and then you show a total disrespect for them by going silent for 6 months.
Sad.

[cegr80]

Like the Iron Maiden song says : "If you're gonna die, die with your boots on"

I'm also hanging on but man ... it feels ugly right now

[metalforever]

considering other vacations if this doesn't work out soon !




























































!

[Mr. HCI]

My two cents:

I really miss the days when they would announce the bands every day or two with a "clue". This helped to build enthusiasm, and the forum response was fun to watch with everybody guessing and getting hyped up.

This year's "updates", if you can even call them that, are having the opposite effect for me (and a lot of others). It's like sitting around waiting for that special guy/girl to call you and....the phone never rings. At first, you've got hope. After a while, you just get sad.

[Godflesh]

[Mr.Kito]

considering other vacations if this doesn't work out soon !

Yeah, to get the vacations during 70k dates, I had to ask until last monday. I didn't, I'm considering vacations in february, since its still summer here in Brazil.

But I'm officially out. That's not a matter of wanting anymore, its a matter of not being able to make it...
I have to consider other vacations, now.

Not constructive criticism, but thanks Andy.

[PotatoPotahto]

Hopefully a record low sales year will make them realize

[metalforever]

considering other vacations if this doesn't work out soon !

Yeah, to get the vacations during 70k dates, I had to ask until last monday. I didn't, I'm considering vacations in february, since its still summer here in Brazil.

But I'm officially out. That's not a matter of wanting anymore, its a matter of not being able to make it...
I have to consider other vacations, now.

Not constructive criticism, but thanks Andy.

There is a very good rock cruise , that is well organized in February that runs 2/13 through 2/17 and some of the money goes to charity. The Rock Legends Cruise .

[cowboy71]

I dont mind the rock legends cruise lineup but unfortunately its definitely not a lineup I'd travel to the USA for.

Monsters of Rock Cruise is though. That lineup is mint for me to be honest. Given the names that are already ruled out for 70k, it will struggle to have a lineup I like better than the MORC one.

[Mr.Kito]

considering other vacations if this doesn't work out soon !

Yeah, to get the vacations during 70k dates, I had to ask until last monday. I didn't, I'm considering vacations in february, since its still summer here in Brazil.

But I'm officially out. That's not a matter of wanting anymore, its a matter of not being able to make it...
I have to consider other vacations, now.

Not constructive criticism, but thanks Andy.

There is a very good rock cruise , that is well organized in February that runs 2/13 through 2/17 and some of the money goes to charity. The Rock Legends Cruise .

I'll check it out, thanks

[Ti7aNiC]

I feel like people are so frustrated that they are being a bit irrational here. Truth be told, Andy could probably open booking and initial band announcements on October 30th, just 3 months prior to sail, and still have the boat practically sold out. Hell, he could probably delay even worse than that. I say 'practically' as I believe the fewer but more expensive cabins are the hardest sell, but that all the interior quads and doubles would easily be booked solid.

3,000 tickets. That's really not many. Wacken was sold out in like 24 hours and that was 80,000 or so people. All that needs to be done is one or two heavy hitters and UMC is set. We all know the overall lineup will be varied enough to make almost anyone content. And the festival itself is the true draw, moreso than the lineup. We know this. Us Survivors are so damn spoiled to say things like 70k needs a band such as Powerwolf or Blind Guardian to generate hype; in reality they absolutely don't. I mean, Michael Schenker? Rage? Anthrax? Give me a break.

As well, so what if we know of 125 or so bands ruled out? Metal Encyc has an archive of some 150,000 bands. I thought I saw Statsman say there was some 2000 unique bands on the combined 70k wishlist. I even bet we could list every band that has previously played 70k, rule out who we know + inactive bands, and we'd still have a pool of enough to make a 60-band lineup.

And every single year I personally know people who say they are skipping but end up onboard. 2023 will be no different. I mean, if Behemoth is on I fully expect to see Giffy chatting up Nergal onboard. That sentiment can be expanded to any survivor and their favorite band(s).

At the end of the day, though, I totally agree with the core message here: Andy needs to learn how to delegate responsibility and they absolutely need to be more transparent with their patrons. I have mentioned this in every feedback survey I have ever filled out. I absolutely feel like complaining here does nothing, though - we aren't telling Andy/UMC anything they don't already know. I also feel really bad for the social media team having to deal with all the vitriol from people while Andy sits in his high horse thinking "hmm nah I'll wait another week." It's like the security on the pool deck the last night, telling people not to crowd surf, not allowing people to mosh in the hot tub anymore, literally dragging people (me) out - but then Andy himself is fucking crowdsurfing.

[cegr80]

I feel like people are so frustrated that they are being a bit irrational here. Truth be told, Andy could probably open booking and initial band announcements on October 30th, just 3 months prior to sail, and still have the boat practically sold out. Hell, he could probably delay even worse than that. I say 'practically' as I believe the fewer but more expensive cabins are the hardest sell, but that all the interior quads and doubles would easily be booked solid.

3,000 tickets. That's really not many. Wacken was sold out in like 24 hours and that was 80,000 or so people. All that needs to be done is one or two heavy hitters and UMC is set. We all know the overall lineup will be varied enough to make almost anyone content. And the festival itself is the true draw, moreso than the lineup. We know this. Us Survivors are so damn spoiled to say things like 70k needs a band such as Powerwolf or Blind Guardian to generate hype; in reality they absolutely don't. I mean, Michael Schenker? Rage? Anthrax? Give me a break.

As well, so what if we know of 125 or so bands ruled out? Metal Encyc has an archive of some 150,000 bands. I thought I saw Statsman say there was some 2000 unique bands on the combined 70k wishlist. I even bet we could list every band that has previously played 70k, rule out who we know + inactive bands, and we'd still have a pool of enough to make a 60-band lineup.

And every single year I personally know people who say they are skipping but end up onboard. 2023 will be no different. I mean, if Behemoth is on I fully expect to see Giffy chatting up Nergal onboard. That sentiment can be expanded to any survivor and their favorite band(s).

At the end of the day, though, I totally agree with the core message here: Andy needs to learn how to delegate responsibility and they absolutely need to be more transparent with their patrons. I have mentioned this in every feedback survey I have ever filled out. I absolutely feel like complaining here does nothing, though - we aren't telling Andy/UMC anything they don't already know. I also feel really bad for the social media team having to deal with all the vitriol from people while Andy sits in his high horse thinking "hmm nah I'll wait another week." It's like the security on the pool deck the last night, telling people not to crowd surf, not allowing people to mosh in the hot tub anymore, literally dragging people (me) out - but then Andy himself is fucking crowdsurfing.

F*** NEW GUY BRIAN!
jk, man. I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. We're all desperate

[cowboy71]

Yeah Fuck New Guy Brian Hughes..... for being right

[PotatoPotahto]

And every single year I personally know people who say they are skipping but end up onboard. 2023 will be no different. I mean, if Behemoth is on I fully expect to see Giffy chatting up Nergal onboard. That sentiment can be expanded to any survivor and their favorite band(s).

Don't call me out like this I don't want to go in 2023 and I'm hoping nothing forces me

[toby]

I dont mind the rock legends cruise lineup but unfortunately its definitely not a lineup I'd travel to the USA for.

Monsters of Rock Cruise is though. That lineup is mint for me to be honest. Given the names that are already ruled out for 70k, it will struggle to have a lineup I like better than the MORC one.

I think Burning Witches might be the only band on that lineup that I'm interested in that I haven't seen multiple times. Rose Tattoo I'd definitely hit both their shows. But I just can't see pulling the trigger on another MORC for those two bands. The last couple I was on just weren't that fun for me. The overall vibe changed a lot from the early days, but maybe that was just the political climate at the time.

[Phoenix]

Much as I'd like anything that's been posted already to be taken seriously by The Skipper, New Guy is right. There's not going to be any changes while the cruise continues to sell despite the bullshit. I said early on I was out for 2020 because the slow slip of announcement dates was grading one, and there's absolutely zero chance I'm going on 2023 (if the cruise is even still happening at this point). A part of that decision is because I have other festivals to go to that will be much more forthcoming when they try to take my money than The Skipper is.

But if you ever want him to do that people actually need to not go when they say they're out. Maybe this is the year that happens, who knows.

Anyway, constructive criticism, most people have already said the big things. Respect your customer base and their time/investment in your fest, learn to delegate, and stop procrastinating on booking bands. We get a better experience if you DON'T leave filling the lineup to the last minute.

AND BE FUCKING TRANSPARENT. If the problem is negotiating fees, cool, tell us! If the problem is that things are looking more expensive than people would be willing to pay, tell us! Ask for feedback! If the cruise is fucking cancelled, TELL US SO PEOPLE CAN STILL GET REFUNDS OR CHANGE VACATION PLANS.

[Dick]

I'm never bothered by the delays. All I want is to hang with a bunch of metalheads from all over the world on a cruise ship. I could be disappointed like my favorite band not playing my favorite song during a set, but the experience is worth more to me.

I rarely leave my house though, so maybe that's the difference.

[Pellaz]

I feel like people are so frustrated that they are being a bit irrational here. Truth be told, Andy could probably open booking and initial band announcements on October 30th, just 3 months prior to sail, and still have the boat practically sold out.

Truth be told....he practically DID. First band announcement today, just two days prior to the 30th.

And every single year I personally know people who say they are skipping but end up onboard. 2023 will be no different. I mean, if Behemoth is on I fully expect to see Giffy chatting up Nergal onboard. That sentiment can be expanded to any survivor and their favorite band(s).

Yep. I'm sure we'll have a few "I'm not coming!" folks on board. I've been really iffy on next year but I've never QUITE pulled the trigger and mentally cancelled outright.

At the end of the day, though, I totally agree with the core message here: Andy needs to learn how to delegate responsibility and they absolutely need to be more transparent with their patrons. I have mentioned this in every feedback survey I have ever filled out. I absolutely feel like complaining here does nothing, though - we aren't telling Andy/UMC anything they don't already know. I also feel really bad for the social media team having to deal with all the vitriol from people while Andy sits in his high horse thinking "hmm nah I'll wait another week."

It would almost be easier to be White House spokesperson than to be UMC's social media czar and deal with the bullshit, from above AND below. --Almost.

[Mr.Kito]

The Lack of apologies from UMC and/or Andy made me feel a little bad... just announcing bands like nothing happened is less than we deserve.