[Mr.Kito]

Might start that already

Do we have any contestants so far?

[MuzakMaker]

Novembre
Oceans of Slumber
Feuerschwanz
Abysmal Dawn

Right now out of those four I like Feuerschwanz the most but it feels kind of against the spirt of Cripper to give it to a fairly well established band.

[cegr80]

Let's review the rules for Cripper Award nominees...

Less than 10,000 listeners in last.fm? If that is the case, then none of these bands apply

[MuzakMaker]

Let's review the rules for Cripper Award nominees...

Less than 10,000 listeners in last.fm? If that is the case, then none of these bands apply

Yeah, that worked in the olden days, but booking enough bands with less than 10000 and hasn't been on the boat before to warrant actually discussing and voting seems very unlikely so I expanded to follow the rules that at least could be followed.

[slayergeek]

Let's review the rules for Cripper Award nominees...

Less than 10,000 listeners in last.fm? If that is the case, then none of these bands apply

Yeah, that worked in the olden days, but booking enough bands with less than 10000 and hasn't been on the boat before to warrant actually discussing and voting seems very unlikely so I expanded to follow the rules that at least could be followed.

I think it's a little early to discuss changing the Cripper rules. The announcements before tickets are on sale are there to get people to buy (bigger names). I expect we will get some real Cripper bands after sales start. Besides, there is no real voting until after the cruise anyway. Can't vote a performance you have not seen :)

[cowboy71]

Agreed. I say we have zero bands that are able to be nominated yet

[MuzakMaker]

Let's review the rules for Cripper Award nominees...

Less than 10,000 listeners in last.fm? If that is the case, then none of these bands apply

Yeah, that worked in the olden days, but booking enough bands with less than 10000 and hasn't been on the boat before to warrant actually discussing and voting seems very unlikely so I expanded to follow the rules that at least could be followed.

I think it's a little early to discuss changing the Cripper rules. The announcements before tickets are on sale are there to get people to buy (bigger names). I expect we will get some real Cripper bands after sales start. Besides, there is no real voting until after the cruise anyway. Can't vote a performance you have not seen :)

Oh, I'm not saying change them now. But it's kind of pointless to even bring this up at all at this point if we think there's no valid bands

[bodomdragon]

Definitely too early to discuss candidates, and definitely no band announced so far applies.

No worries - every single year among the last announcements we get many candidates. It has always been like that and will undoubtedly happen again.

[Castroh]

A Cripper Reunion onbroad would definitely be eligible to win the Cripper award!

[bodomdragon]

Is there still interest on the Cripper Award, or should we put it to rest?

If we are to continue with it, may I suggest a slightly modernized approach? I would suggest that out of the 60 bands, we take the 10% (6 bands) with less listeners on Spotify, and those are our contestants.

[Godflesh]

We already have 9 newbie bands with < 10000 listeners.
I’m sure we’ll get 10 more

[cegr80]

Why not stick with the classic rules? Them two trios are perfect Cripper nominees by regular standards, so 6 is a good number so far.

Adding too many bands would make it more difficult, imo.

Just my two cents

[cegr80]

We already have 9 newbie bands with < 10000 listeners.
I’m sure we’ll get 10 more

I'm not sure if omitting number of albums is good for nominees. Some of those bands you are counting clearly have more than one album

[cowboy71]

I think we should continue with this, even if it is back to being more of a "fun" thing (ie whatever happened to the "award" battle vest?)

And I agree with sticking to the classic rules.

[bodomdragon]

Why not stick with the classic rules? Them two trios are perfect Cripper nominees by regular standards, so 6 is a good number so far.

Adding too many bands would make it more difficult, imo.

Just my two cents

I was suggesting moving to "Spotify criteria" because nowadays MANY of us use it and I really believe it's the most reliable criteria when it comes to evaluating how popular a band is. Much more than last.fm. And yes, as I said 6 bands is a good number, I agree.

Hey, I'm one of the organizers, or at least I was, so my game, my rules.

(Kidding, whatever the fuck you guys want, I really couldn't care less )

[cowboy71]

Why not stick with the classic rules? Them two trios are perfect Cripper nominees by regular standards, so 6 is a good number so far.

Adding too many bands would make it more difficult, imo.

Just my two cents

I was suggesting moving to "Spotify criteria" because nowadays MANY of us use it and I really believe it's the most reliable criteria when it comes to evaluating how popular a band is. Much more than last.fm. And yes, as I said 6 bands is a good number, I agree.

Hey, I'm one of the organizers, or at least I was, so my game, my rules.

(Kidding, whatever the fuck you guys want, I really couldn't care less )

All good you make a valid point! I use both last.fm and spotify so don't care either way :)

[toby]

What were the full criteria again?

I also think that Spotify may be the better option.

[cegr80]

Oh, I use Spotify way more than last.fm .... so I wouldn't mind switching to a Spotify criteria

As long as we agree on number of listeners and albums for nominees, I'm game

[toby]

Oh, I use Spotify way more than last.fm .... so I wouldn't mind switching to a Spotify criteria

As long as we agree on number of listeners and albums for nominees, I'm game

Yep. Might need to adjust a little since last.fm has lost a lot of popularity (at least in the US).but that's not a deal breaker for me.

[mooyagi]

We already have 9 newbie bands with < 10000 listeners.
I’m sure we’ll get 10 more

I'm not sure if omitting number of albums is good for nominees. Some of those bands you are counting clearly have more than one album

I'm pretty sure Nightmare won one year and they'd been around for a couple of decades

[cowboy71]

This was our full criteria for 2020:

1. The band must have never played on the boat before
2. The band must have less than 10,000 listeners on last.fm
3. The band must not have "famous" members (from other well-known bands, for instance)

[bodomdragon]

This was our full criteria for 2020:

1. The band must have never played on the boat before
2. The band must have less than 10,000 listeners on last.fm
3. The band must not have "famous" members (from other well-known bands, for instance)

My suggestion would be making a slight adjustment (changing point 2), following a criteria more focused on the "lesser known bands" rather than establishing a certain threshold:

1. The 6 bands with the lesser listeners on Spotify are selected
2. The band must have never played on the boat before
3. The band must not have "famous" members (from other well-known bands, for instance)
4. If any of the 6 selected bands in point 1 break rules 2 or 3, the next less listened band makes it to the list, ensuring we have 6 candidates (10% of the lineup)

[cowboy71]

This was our full criteria for 2020:

1. The band must have never played on the boat before
2. The band must have less than 10,000 listeners on last.fm
3. The band must not have "famous" members (from other well-known bands, for instance)

My suggestion would be making a slight adjustment (changing point 2), following a criteria more focused on the "lesser known bands" rather than establishing a certain threshold:

1. The 6 bands with the lesser listeners on Spotify are selected
2. The band must have never played on the boat before
3. The band must not have "famous" members (from other well-known bands, for instance)
4. If any of the 6 selected bands in point 1 break rules 2 or 3, the next less listened band makes it to the list, ensuring we have 6 candidates (10% of the lineup)

This methodology is statsman-approved.

[toby]

So, as of now, who are our first timers?

[bodomdragon]

I am having quite busy days lately but if you guys want to help me out filling this stupid template that would be super useful. Feel free to contribute with one, five or ten bands and we'll get it done as a team in no time :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[toby]

I just put in all the current bands. No point in looking up listeners until we put in first timers, IMO.

[bodomdragon]

Thanks, I just added some info of bands that I know by heart that are repeats or are not. The ones I've left blank still need to be checked.

[cegr80]

My suggestion would be making a slight adjustment (changing point 2), following a criteria more focused on the "lesser known bands" rather than establishing a certain threshold:

1. The 6 bands with the lesser listeners on Spotify are selected
2. The band must have never played on the boat before
3. The band must not have "famous" members (from other well-known bands, for instance)
4. If any of the 6 selected bands in point 1 break rules 2 or 3, the next less listened band makes it to the list, ensuring we have 6 candidates (10% of the lineup)

OK, I understand better now. I second this motion

[toby]

Wolfchant has definitely been onbroad before. They even wrote a song about it. lol I'll see if I can check the others here and there between tasks.

[toby]

Should Dear Mother be struck because of Merel?

[bodomdragon]

Should Dear Mother be struck because of Merel?

I'm adding the spotify listeners now. I wondered the same thing but my perception is that Dear Mother will not make it anyway (has a relatively high amount of monthly listeners).

[cegr80]

For criteria #3, does it apply to both current and past members?

[bodomdragon]

OK so I completed the first version of the Excel file (thanks toby and anyone else who may have helped!). You can all check the file itself (please don't break it) but this is what it looks like right now:

Empress 789
Fractal Universe 3302
Cryptosis 3363
Isole 3388
Osyron 3627
Eshtadur 9301
Hei'an 10148
Deathless Legacy 10200
Hideous Divinity 12473
Nothgard 13961

These are the less listened bands plus the monthly listeners in Spotify. In bold the six candidates by the rules we defined before. Sad to see Hei'an doesn't make it.

[bodomdragon]

For criteria #3, does it apply to both current and past members?

I would suggest you just type the name and then we can decide together. For now the "famous members" have had no impact on the current candidates.

[toby]

OK so I completed the first version of the Excel file (thanks toby and anyone else who may have helped!). You can all check the file itself (please don't break it) but this is what it looks like right now:

Empress 789
Fractal Universe 3302
Cryptosis 3363
Isole 3388
Osyron 3627
Eshtadur 9301
Hei'an 10148
Deathless Legacy 10200
Hideous Divinity 12473
Nothgard 13961

These are the less listened bands plus the monthly listeners in Spotify. In bold the six candidates by the rules we defined before. Sad to see Hei'an doesn't make it.

Yeah, that looks like a good list. We'll have to see if the last 10(+) change it.

[Danny24601]

Looks like I'm a bit late to the conversation but I'd vote against using spotify listeners as opposed to spotify, instagram, or Facebook followers, or some other more durable metric.

Monthly listeners are really variable as they only track how many people have listened to you in the past month, this number often can swing quite big even for small bands after a release or announcement and it can dip low even for established acts if they've been inactive for a period. This is causing us to overrate acts with recent releases and underrate acts in between active periods (see Isole vs. Hei'an).

I'd also vote against a limit of 6 in favor of a hard cutoff at a round number, I suspect skipper will book varying numbers of crips in different years.

Just opinions, happy to leave the rules as is if we feel like we're rolling already.

[toby]

Looks like I'm a bit late to the conversation but I'd vote against using spotify listeners as opposed to spotify, instagram, or Facebook followers, or some other more durable metric.

Monthly listeners are really variable as they only track how many people have listened to you in the past month, this number often can swing quite big even for small bands after a release or announcement and it can dip low even for established acts if they've been inactive for a period. This is causing us to overrate acts with recent releases and underrate acts in between active periods (see Isole vs. Hei'an).

I'd also vote against a limit of 6 in favor of a hard cutoff at a round number, I suspect skipper will book varying numbers of crips in different years.

Just opinions, happy to leave the rules as is if we feel like we're rolling already.

I'd be cool with a followers metric. I think listens on last.fm was probably outdated because I know that I hadn't even logged in there in years. And Spotify (at least in the US) is a popular platform.

[slayergeek]

While I would doubt you guys would want to use this “officially”, an interesting metric might be which cripper band got the highest “boost” during the cruise.

I am going to publish must/might/won’t the day of the cruise. For example right now Heian is at 24.24% must see. If after the cruise that number is 40% people must have really dug them on the boat.

It probably shouldn’t count officially, but it would be an interesting stat to see the most improved post cruise.

[toby]

While I would doubt you guys would want to use this “officially”, and interesting metric might be which cripper band got the highest “boost” during the cruise.

I am going to publish must/might/won’t the day of the cruise. For example right now Helen is at 24.24% must see. If after the cruise that number is 40% people must have really dug them on the boat.

It probably shouldn’t count officially, but it would be an interesting stat to see the most improved post cruise.

That WOULD be an interesting stat. That being said, I need to update my list in the app. I'm sure I put a couple bands as Must when announced that have become Might since then.

[MuzakMaker]

Looks like I'm a bit late to the conversation but I'd vote against using spotify listeners as opposed to spotify, instagram, or Facebook followers, or some other more durable metric.

Monthly listeners are really variable as they only track how many people have listened to you in the past month, this number often can swing quite big even for small bands after a release or announcement and it can dip low even for established acts if they've been inactive for a period. This is causing us to overrate acts with recent releases and underrate acts in between active periods (see Isole vs. Hei'an).

I'd also vote against a limit of 6 in favor of a hard cutoff at a round number, I suspect skipper will book varying numbers of crips in different years.

Just opinions, happy to leave the rules as is if we feel like we're rolling already.

The problem with using followers is it's a one time interaction. Click follow and then if you forget to unclick follow you still still get tracked whereas any method of tracking active engagement does all the work of filtering out those types of listeners for us

If there was a site that aggregated active listeners across all platforms reliably (like Last.Fm but actually worked) I'd advocate for that, but since there isn't, Spotify is going to be solid indicator of a band's stature with its wide user base